I wanted to know if people like Olson or Ryan thickness the top/back/side differently per guitar as well as tweaking the bracing pattern and the bracing shape for each guitar to meet certain "voicing"?

Or are they more like Taylor guitars where they pre-shape the bracing and top to certain thickness and then put it together?

It seems that people like Ryan and Olson automates much of the process (which is great) and puts out a lot of guitar per year. I am trying to figure out exactly what process are automated and what process are not.

In your case, what part/pocess is "hand built" to make sure that the voicing comes out the way you want, and what part/process is build like a "factory"? 

I am assuming things like neck and finishing can be built in an automated fashion, but the thickness of the back/top and the bracing pattern/shape has to be changed for every guitar you build to achieve the best tone?

I was told that Santa Cruz voices each top by a SCGC dealer. Do you know if that is true or not? For production line guitars, that must get pretty expensive, but their prices is not that expensive (compared to comparable Martin, Taylor, Huss and Dalton, Collings and etc) 

I wonder if there are small scale (50-100 guitars a year) builders who can voice each top/back while still staying in business? If so, they must charge a ton of money for each?  

I don't want this thread to become "factory" vs "hand made" discussion. That is not the intent.

However, I did assume (naively I guess) that most of high-end luthier would "voice" each guitar by hand/machine/monkey, so the outcome of the "tone" is consistent.

Using the same thickness, and same bracing shape is what factories like Martin and Taylor does, and they don't seem to produce tone that are consistent across the guitars (the physical product itself is very consistent, but not the tone).

How do you guys build? Assuming your experimental phase is over, do you try to voice each guitar in some manner to get the results you are looking for?

Using the same thickness, and same bracing shape is what factories like Martin and Taylor does, and they don't seem to produce tone that are consistent across the guitars (the physical product itself is very consistent, but not the tone).

How do you guys build? Assuming your experimental phase is over, do you try to voice each guitar in some manner to get the results you are looking for?

If the Taylor/Martin is making the guitar per physical spec (thickness and shape), then the end results will be a "production line or factory" like guitars, falling in under the bell curve.

If an "artisan" makes a guitar per physical spec (thickness and shape), then his guitar will also fall under the bell curve.

In fact, there is a higher chance that Taylor has a better shape bell curve than an "artisan" would be, because they have a lot more control and automation in place to ensure quality (or consistency). 

Again, how do artisans (olson, ryan, etc) or how do YOU ensure that you have consistent quality, if you are building it per spec? By pure statistics Taylor will build better guitar than you do, becasue they can play "build per spec" game better than you.

To me only way to out smart Taylor is doing eihter:

1. Change shape/bracing/thickness of every guitar to ensure the same output in tone

2. anything that falls below average gets thrown away (or fix it. But fixing it would be #1 option above)

Either option above gets expensive, if you are trying to make a living building guitars and you need to pump out 50+ guitars by 1 or 2 people.

If the Taylor/Martin is making the guitar per physical spec (thickness and shape), then the end results will be a "production line or factory" like guitars, falling in under the bell curve.

If an "artisan" makes a guitar per physical spec (thickness and shape), then his guitar will also fall under the bell curve.

In fact, there is a higher chance that Taylor has a better shape bell curve than an "artisan" would be, because they have a lot more control and automation in place to ensure quality (or consistency). 

Again, how do artisans (olson, ryan, etc) or how do YOU ensure that you have consistent quality, if you are building it per spec? By pure statistics Taylor will build better guitar than you do, becasue they can play "build per spec" game better than you.

To me only way to out smart Taylor is doing eihter:

1. Change shape/bracing/thickness of every guitar to ensure the same output in tone

2. anything that falls below average gets thrown away (or fix it. But fixing it would be #1 option above)

Either option above gets expensive, if you are trying to make a living building guitars and you need to pump out 50+ guitars by 1 or 2 people.

To me only way to out smart Taylor is doing eihter:

1. Change shape/bracing/thickness of every guitar to ensure the same output in tone

2. anything that falls below average gets thrown away (or fix it. But fixing it would be #1 option above)

Either option above gets expensive, if you are trying to make a living building guitars and you need to pump out 50+ guitars by 1 or 2 people.

[QUOTE=Brock Poling]
But this is ultimately musing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It is an interesting question, but one not likely to produce any significant answers.
[/QUOTE]

My original question has been answered. People like Olson do not necessarily voice each guitar, but really build it per spec. I am now realizing that there is a market for this kind of guitars (but you need a good reputation to do so).

As noted above, I naively thought ALL the custom/hand-build/CNC luthier was different from a "factory" (such as Taylor, Gibson, Martin and etc) because each instrument was tweaked until it met the tone requirement. However, that is not the case it seems.

Here is how I would break down the builder categories (ignore the naming convention):

1. “Custom hand built” builder - each guitar is unique (not just different purfling or wood selection), but the design is made to suit the player's need exactly. I think luthier in this category is few and far between.

2. "Hand built" builder - build limited models, and allows some variations (decorations, wood selection changes) within that. However, each guitar is voiced individually during the build process to ensure the consistent tone. I think many of us belong to this category?

3. "Production Line Hand built" builder - same as #2 above, but does not voice each guitars during the build process, but might touch up afterwards to make a “bad” one “better”. It sounds like Olson and Ryan like people falls under here (we could be wrong however).

4. "Factory built but with individual attention" manufacture - Maybe Santa Cruz falls under this. They build it per spec, but do individual voicing for each guitar. Very similar to #2, but in much higher scale.

5. "Factory production line built" manufacture - Built per spec, and no individual voicing. I am assuming people like Martin and Taylor falls under here. Very similar to #3, but in much higher scale.

If I were to start a guitar business, I would exclude group 1 & 5 because it will be tough to survive in that category (existing players, or demand too low).