Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi All

I have been acquiring tools as I go right now I am looking for a plane that can do double duty as a jointer and thickness. I will be primarily building ukes with a few smaller body guitars I am on a budget hence the double duty plane but I want to buy quality I am thinking a low angle jack by LV or LN anyone who has used these please help

Thanks

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Zac

Anchorage Alaska

Finshed my 1st! See #1 here

Ive got a Veritas No 3 smoother and an LA smoother. Ive found the LA is not so good on rosewood and other woods with a rogue grain and I usually end up using the conventional smoother or a scraper plane. The latter also gets used for preparing tops for joining. I also have a jointer which also gets used for the latter task if its within arms reach.

The most used plane in my workshop is the Veritas LA block plane.

If I could have only one bench plane for guitar work I would want a #4 size, possibly a #5; you can easily joint and thickness plates with either size. I like old planes, but I'm sure the LN and Veritas are very well made tools.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

I agree with Arnt...a medium length bench plane like a #4 will be plenty long for ukes and smaller size guitars and can be used for some many types of operations including jointing and thinknessing.

I have alot of planes including all the ones mentioned above but more often than not the two that are always beside me on my workbench. I keep an old #4 in which I have flattened (trued) the sole and upgraded the blade and chipbreaker to a Hock setup (A2). The other is an older Stanley #12 or #80 scraper plane.

As Martin said a LA is not good for some things but the same as him the one other plane that is always within reach is a low angle block plane. I have and really like the Veritas LA block plane but what I grab more times than not is an old Stanley #60 1/2 in which I have also flattened (trued) the sole and upgraded the blade/chipbreaker to a Hock setup.

If I could only have one .. LV low angle smoother, 2 blades, one ground at 40, one at 50. That gives you a 52 and 62 degree attack angle on the wood, and will plane pretty much anything. I keep my current one (only one blade) at 45 (angle is then 57 with the bed of 12), its a little harder to plane braces to thickness because of the angle, but does an amazing job on ebony, rosewood, mahogany, figured maples.

At the last workshop show here in Toronto I checked out the LN and LV low angle ajcks - I liked the LV better. The LN doenst have the blade setting side set screws like the LV, nor the throat closing front section, and it just felt better in my hands. Plus its a few bucks cheaper. Blades were about the same.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

if i were to have a single plane for thicknessing a and jointing, it would be a #5, probably with a corrugated sole.

as mentioned by some others, i am not a fan of low angle planes in these applications.

and when it comes to doing woods with complex grain, low angle plains fail quicker than those set at normal angles. these woods really require scraping to thickness by hand.

whilst i admire the modern generation high quality planes such as ln, lv, etc., with only one exception my stock of planes are old stanleys, millers falls and sargeants, all with their original blades. the exception is a ln 212 scraper presented to meby my sweetie as a solstice present, which is a real gem. but because the collectors have really fouled up the market it was cheaper by a mile than an original stanley version so there was no benefit in going for the original.

if you decide to spend the extra dosh, you will not be disappointed with either the ln or the lv offerings, but you don't need to spend that sort of money to acquire a tool to do the job well.

There is some great advice listed above. I would add that if you wind up with
an older Stanley type plane, run, do not walk to the phone and order a Ron
Hock blade.

I have an old #8 that I use for joining and the Hock blade makes all the
difference in the world.

I like the #8 for jointing arched plates as it has a slightly wider blade that
the #7.

Louis

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- Louis Freilicher

Oh No! Not another learning experience!

[QUOTE=crazymanmichael] if i were to have a single plane for thicknessing and jointing, it would be a #5, probably with a corrugated sole.
[/QUOTE]

Lots of great advice in these posts. I do find that my corrugated sole plane doesn't work well in jointing thin stock (like a single back or top edge).

Just to muddy the waters more completely, I'll add that my favourite planes are the E.C.E. Primus jointer and smoother, and an old 60 1/2 with a new (Hock) blade. The LV (and I assume the LN) block planes and the newer Stanleys are quite a bit heavier than an older 60 1/2.

The Primus planes have the only 'no backlash' adjusters I've seen and the blades are great as well.

Cheers

John

[QUOTE=ToddStock] The LN 60-1/2 is heavier for a reason - it actually supports the blade with a fair amount of iron, versus the minimal support provided by the Stanley and Record versions. Support of the blade is critical to getting vibration-free cuts in tough woods as well as getting a full width, .0005 or so shaving in curly or rowed woods.

[/QUOTE]
Todd-
Good point about the weight. The older Stanley 60 1/2 are just generally lighter casting throughout, not just in the area that would be the 'frog' in a full-size plane. Of course, that's probably why they are also prone to cracks around the mouth.
I generally use my block planes for smaller jobs like shaping braces or taking a swipe from the edge of an end graft. My (aching) elbow tells me the difference between plane weights after a few hundred strokes.

The original question was about one 'all purpose' plane. I think most folks would find, that for the same (or considerably less) money, a group of 2 or 3 used Stanleys (with original blades, sharpened) would be more useful than one high-end plane.

Of course I like to grab the keys for the Rolls Royce when I head out to the grocery store as much as the next person. Same with tools!
Cheers
John

I have the low-angle Lee Valley (Veritas) plane Tony's talking about and two blades and love the thing. I don't really use it much these days (replaced by the face mill on the Fadal, of all things) but it certainly did the trick and did it well.

The article that originally convinced me to dish out the dough was this review:Review

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

A low angle plane is not the right tool for either thicknessng or jointing. I suspect the reason so many people like low angles is that the angle partially compensates for for a dull blade.

Not sure what the 60-1/2 is doing in this discussion. It is far from being the plane for your purposes. A number 4 or 5 jack will do you.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

[QUOTE=Howard Klepper]

Not sure what the 60-1/2 is doing in this discussion. It is far from being the plane for your purposes. A number 4 or 5 jack will do you.[/QUOTE]

My fault- I let things drift off topic a bit. Sorry about that.
I agree on the #4 or 5 recommendation.
John

Man lots of great info

I thought of going the vintage route but
a. I dont have the skills to recondtion myself
b. I dont know reputable recondtioners

If any one knows a trustworthy source for a #5 jack let me know if not I will
start saving the shekels for a new one

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Zac

Anchorage Alaska

Finshed my 1st! See #1 here

if you can slide a piece of metal back and forth across a piece of sandpaper on a flat surface, use a magic marker and a straight edge, a wire brush and solvent, you can tune up a plane. the skills are utterly rudimentary and there a no end of how to's available. it's been done by innumerable woodworkers. it's not like we're talking about restoring a ferrari or a bugatti.

compared to making a guitar it's a no brainer, so if you find this daunting you are going to have problems.

if you just want to spend money instead of effort, that is your choice to go for, but be realistic in discerning what is truly difficult and what is not.

Generally speaking, I think I am trustworthy. I can sell you a Stanley vintage #5. It will be sharp, square and set up for fine cutting. It will not be polished and re-japanned, nor will the wood be refinished.$35 plus shipping for clean, very sharp and set up to go. $65 for flattened sole, reasonably square to sole cheeks, and the rosewood refinished with a satin. If you say yes, the $ would be sent to Lance for the benefit of the forum.
     I am developing some business of this sort, and some other honing aids, and wooden body planes. There will be several more of my own items and in each case, the first sold on this forum funds will go to support the forum. Stay tuned- Oh and I actually got around to bracing the top for the walnut OM- it has only been stuck at that stage for 7 months. Regards, Mike T.

In reply to the original question, I love the Lee Valley bevel-up jack plane.
I have used older standard planes for decades, and was very skeptical of
the bevel-up (low-angle) jacks and smoothers when they first appeared.
Recently I was convinced to try a LV jack and was won over completely.
Todd's and Tony's comments are my experience also, though I am OK
with the LV handle. With the 38 degree iron in the LV jack, it seems to
work as well as, or better than my Millers Falls or Bedrock jacks for
general purpose work (and I REALLY like those planes). Though I have not
needed to use it much yet, the really steep 50 degree iron appears to
work better than a high-angle LN smoother on the gnarly stuff.

Having said all of this, a decent old #5 for under $35 is a true bargain,
and a clean one with a carefully flattened sole for $65 is a steal.

Brook

I didn't see anyone mention a #4 1/2. That surprises me. The # 4 1/2 is the perfect candidate for what zac is looking for. Its got the weight and width of a #5 and the length of a 4. Long enough to comprimise a jointer plane and heavy enough to plane tops and some harder woods with much less effort than a #4. I can't think of a better plane to suit the dual purpose.
There are several brands who make them, and in many woodworking circles, its the most sought after jack plane. I don't want to go into several paragraphs trying to "sell" anyone on it, so I'll just leave it at that. Good luck with your seach for a decent plane.

-j.

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“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

Actually the #4 1/2 is as wide as a #7 and it is usually referred to as a smoother, not a jack plane. I agree that it is a super plane however, I have the Bedrock #604 1/2 with a Hock iron. Still, I think a lighter #4 is more versatile as an all purpose plane and the longer #5 is slightly better suited as a jointer; they are also both more common, therefore less expensive.   But all these planes (including my beloved #5 1/2) will do the job, it is just a matter of preference. I don't have any experience with low angle smoothers or jacks so I won't comment on those, but the Spiers infill I got for Christmas is the best smoother I have tried (I posted a picture in the "what's on your workbench" thread).

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin