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| Glues and where to use them http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=11413 |
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| Author: | blindreality [ Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:00 am ] |
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My first kit should arrive on Friday and I have a lot to do such as building radius boards and dishes, but I was just wondering if there is a consensus on what glues to use on a guitar and where to use the respective glues. I’ve read several articles and posts on the subject and have not personally come to a conclusion and since this is my first, I thought I’d ask people who’d been there and done that. It seems that tightbond is popular for areas such as bracing that we hope will never need to be removed, but a weaker or rather easier broken bonding glue for the fretboard and binding. So, what are your opinions on the matter? I want to get this as right as possible and your help is appreciated. . |
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| Author: | CarltonM [ Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:25 am ] |
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Jared, as a beginner you can't go wrong with Titebond original. Tens of thousands of guitars have been successfully built with it. Really, your main concern will be getting your joints tight, which is a must for any glue. After your first is done, start reading here about how folks use other glues, and proceed from there as you like. |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:41 am ] |
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I've used Hot Hide Glue (HHG) from the start. It's far easier than most people think and the benefits far outweigh the steeper learning curve IMO. If I can learn how to use it anyone can! Lots of folks here use HHG. Feel free to ask and get help if you decide to go that route. I use HHG on everything but the FB to neck joint. There I use 90 minute epoxy. Good luck with the first build Jared! |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:43 am ] |
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[QUOTE=blindreality].....is a consensus on what glues to use on a guitar and where to use the respective glues..... [/QUOTE] No. I think there could be consensus that most glues will do an adequate job, and that joint preparation, clamp pressure, and holding time are more important than type of glue used. [QUOTE=blindreality]....It seems that tightbond is popular for areas such as bracing that we hope will never need to be removed, but a weaker or rather easier broken bonding glue for the fretboard and binding..... [/QUOTE] Not true. Titebond is strong enough for these applications. You need to learn how to create a tight joint that is not contaminated with dust and oils, and provide adequate clamping pressure, but not to much to create a dry joint. |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:14 pm ] |
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there is not any concensus that most glues will do any andequate job for all guitar building tasks. the two closest to that ideal are titebond 1, the original, and hide, though hide has a much longer learning curve, mainly in the rehearsal time it takes to get your gluing procedure sufficiently mastered to be able to accomplish the glueups in the required short open times. many feel that fish glue may be in this category as well, though i have no experience with it. there are some glues about which there is close to general consensus that they are not suitable for general use in guitar building, among them polyurethane, tb 2 and 3, epoxy, ca. whilst not be suitable for general use, many of them are useful in limited specific situations. i think that using tb 1 whilst you get used to the building skills and procedures is good advise, and i would second it. |
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| Author: | gozierdt [ Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:25 pm ] |
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I've used titebond 1 on almost everything on my first three guitars. Exceptions are minor use of CA glues- for gluing in a few "oops" fixes and for filling some open slots around the binding while finishing, and a 90 minute epoxy for the third fretboard- I didn't like the cracking noises when I adjusted the truss rod on #2, where I had used titebond 1 for the fretboard. That said, I have a gallon of fish glue I'm going to experiment with. If a couple of luthiers in central CA would like some, I'd be glad to share. Send me a PM. |
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| Author: | Telfer [ Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:56 pm ] |
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Im no expert but I use hide glue for almost everything except the truss rod where I use epoxy. Im not going back to Titebond, which is what I started with. 1. Hide glue is easier to work with in that the peices dont skate around when youre clamping - this sliding around on the glue film can drive you batty. 2. It requires only light clamping pressure because its such a thin film. 3. It sets to a harder film which doesnt flex or creep over time. |
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| Author: | Parames B [ Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:35 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=SteveS] [ Not true. Titebond is strong enough for these applications. You need to learn how to create a tight joint that is not contaminated with dust and oils, and provide adequate clamping pressure, but not to much to create a dry joint. [/QUOTE] Regarding the clamping pressure, how do you know you have got the right amount of pressure, not too much or less? |
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| Author: | bob_connor [ Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:19 pm ] |
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Frank Ford has a really good chart on frets.com that deals with different glues and where they are most appropriately used. |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:36 am ] |
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[QUOTE=ParamesB] Regarding the clamping pressure, how do you know you have got the right amount of pressure, not too much or less? [/QUOTE] With well fitting parts, it is pretty easy. You want some squeeze out, but not so much force that you are driving out all the glue. That amount of force is pretty hard to get, so you don't have to worry too much about over clamping. You'd probably have to start crushing some wood to get there. Squeeze out tells you that you have enough glue and pressure. For example, if there are areas in a brace where there is squeeze out and areas where there is no squeeze out, you can be pretty sure that in the places where there is no squeeze out, that you either don't have enough glue, or you don't have enough pressure. Apply more pressure, if you don't see any squeeze out, immediately remove the brace and apply more glue and repeat. |
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| Author: | Irwin R [ Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:56 am ] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Beat me to it Bob....Here's Franks chart..
* The solvents in cyanoacrylate and those needed to clean up cyanoacrylate and epoxy are destructive to traditional lacquer, varnish and shellac finishes, making these glues poor choices for many applications. Most epoxy loses strength at the temperatures reached in hot parked cars, so it may not be the best choice for highly stressed applications around the bridge and neck.
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| Author: | blindreality [ Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:15 am ] |
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I like the heat stress test on frets.com. It is really making me consider going the Hot Hide Glue route for as much as possible. |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:34 am ] |
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Yep, proper joint fitting is the most important thing to consider. I used Titebond on my first and LMI white for the braces. Great stuff! On no.2 I started using HHG and I'm never turning back. On my latest I am now using fish glue for the top and back to the rims as it gives you huge open time. If you don't mind keeping things clamped up for a little while longer, I would recommend using fish glue exclusively. It dries as hard as HHG. Be wary of the little filaments when cleaning up, thouhg... Those are a PITA... Hope this helps. |
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