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Latest issue - Fretting....
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Author:  Steve Saville [ Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:42 pm ]
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I just am finishing up this neck. The fret highlighted in the picture is lower across the wing of the dove. I'm not sure what to do. I probably hammered it too hard and the spalted maple just compressed a little. It is only a problem on the one string for that one fret. It plays one fret sharp right there.

What do I do now?

I'm thinking that I need to put in a new fret, being careful not to deform it over the wing. I've never removed a fret before. What do I need to know about that? Do I need more tools now?   

Thanks you for your help!


Author:  Dave White [ Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:50 pm ]
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Steve,

For fret removal check out pages like this on Frank Ford's Frets.com. Others such as CrazyManMichael have posted on this in the past but you need to heat the fret with something like an andpted soldering iron and have a puller with the edges ground down flush to get in between the board and fret without doing damage and then go very slow.

If the maple inlay has compressed slightly then you may need to use the steam method for removing dents on tops but being careful not to damage the fret slot.

Other repairers will be able to give better advice.

The inlay looks really nice.
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:15 am ]
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you will need a fret puller, i.e. a small pair of end nippers with the jaws ground flush. your belt sander is the preferred tool to do this. cost, a $ or $$ at advance auto or simiar. or you can go to s-m and pay $25 or so. your choice.

lay down a tiny bead of water along the edge of the bead either side of the fret with a fine syringe or a stretched pipette. using a soldering iron, begin heating the fret at its far end. it looks like you have some glue in the slots; if so ensure you have ventilation to take the fumes away from you. when the water steams and bubbles out begin by pressing the face of the pullers jaws down onto the wood of the fb on either side of the fret bead, and gently squeeze the jaws under the bead of the fret.

DO NOT LIFT OR LEVER THE FRET. JUST SQUEEZE WHILST MAINTAINING THE DOWNWARD PRESSURE. THE WEDGE SHAPE OF THE PULLER JAWS WILL DO THE LIFTING.

release, and slide the puller about half the jaw width, and press down on the wood and squeeze again, and so forth across the fret, heating as you go.

ideally the fret should come out cleanly with no chipping. where you have your inlay meeting the fb, make sure that the jaws span the join, and ensure you maintain the downward pressure whilst squeezing.

don't get psyhched, it's easy if you do it right.
Author:  Terry Stowell [ Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Good morning Steve,

Place a feeler gage next to the fret to avoid compression of the spalted maple.

If that doesn't feel right, hit it with ca, try not to get it under the fret. If you DO get it under the fret, it'll release with a puff of smoke when you heat with a modified soldering gun (not a low wattage soldering pencil)

I REAALY want to see the finished dove. I have some things I'm doing for a gift guitar and we're doing the same theme on the headstock. I'd love to chat with you about some of these themes.

You CAN do it. I'm praying for you. It's probably more of a confidence/creativity issue than competance issue. At least that's my experience. PM me if you want to chat on the phone.

Have a blessed day. Can't wait to see the results
Author:  burbank [ Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:08 am ]
Post subject: 
Steve,

I'm wondering about the inlay's ability to compress enough to bring the fret down so far that it plays at the next fret.

After removing the fret and steaming it level, (give it several days to dry) maybe look into the possibility of stabilizing the maple with thin CA, possibly through the fret slot. Using the slot would get the CA into the end grain. Definitely experiment first on scrap. Or could there be a void under the inlay?
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:07 am ]
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[QUOTE=burbank] Steve,

After removing the fret and steaming it level, (give it several days to dry) maybe look into the possibility of stabilizing the maple with thin CA, possibly through the fret slot. Using the slot would get the CA into the end grain. Definitely experiment first on scrap. Or could there be a void under the inlay?[/QUOTE]
I was thinking along these lines as well, when I read the post.

One hint that was given to me a while back was to find some thin plastic (margarine tub or similar) and cut a strip to put in the fret slot. This helps to keep the slot free of glue when you are doing jobs like fixing slot edges or gluing on binding, and would help if you are flooding the inlay with glue.

Another possibility (unappealing) would be to remove the inlay and replace with a harder material.

Better to find this problem now, rather than later. Unless it was destined to be a so-called 'cowboy guitar' with all the playing below the 4th fret, the problem with the sunken fret and a hollow from wear would have shown up eventually.

John
Author:  Steve Saville [ Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Thank you all for the information, help and encouragement. I'll buy a small pair of end nippers today and remove the fret tonight.

Will I need different fret wire for the replacement?

I flooded the dove with CA several times already.
Hmmm... I just realized that I when I leveled and profiled the fretboard on the guitar, that I didn't follow up with CA on the dove. I probably removed .010" or more from that area. That could have been part of the problem. The spalted maple isn't very sturdy, especially compared to the ebony.
Author:  1bordeaux [ Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:08 am ]
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I'm not certain, but from the photo, the area of the fret in question appears to be "dented" as if hammered or filed a bit much beneath the G string.

You might try pressing the replacement fret in. If you don't have or don't wish to wait for a set of cauls, you could make a "throw away" caul with a scrap of maple or other hard wood, and use your drill press spindle as a press.
You could lightly tap in the outer edges to hold the fret in place prior to pressing.

Best of luck!
Paul

Author:  Steve Saville [ Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Thank you all for your help!

I pulled the fret, it came up so easy with the heat and my new modified small pair of end nippers.
I cut a new fret and hammered it in, hammering only over the ebony. The curve is nice and it locked in pretty well. Should I follow it up with some CA?

Before this, it played great, had great action.
How do I level just the one fret without doing all of them again? Is that possible?
Right now, it is sitting a little higher than the ones next to it due to the leveling and polishing previously performed.
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:26 am ]
Post subject: 
you can level the one fret by just filing it alone, check, file, ad nauseum. use a short rocker to test it against the adjacent frets.
Author:  Steve Saville [ Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Michael,
Thank you so much for your post here. I got it done today. Having never done that before, it was a little scary. Your help, along with every one else that posted here really helped.
The guitar plays great now and you'd never know the fret was replace, unless it somehow got posted on and internet forum.
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:21 pm ]
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steve, glad it went well for you. most of the things we do are in fact fairly simple and make sense if you think about them.... after someone tells you; having to discover them yourself is not easy, and often counter intuitive, and frequently abortive.

now you're ready to begin attacking refrets....
Author:  Steve Saville [ Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:57 pm ]
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[QUOTE=crazymanmichael] now you're ready to begin attacking refrets.... [/QUOTE] Don't people get about $250 for that? Sounds like pretty good money. I wouldn't mind trying one. I'd probably end up making about $5.00 per hour, just like my building.   

Thanks again, I really appreciate the help.
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
there was a thread about repair prices a week or so ago. depending on where you are and the type of guitar, fb style, etc., rates can vary from about $175 to $400 or so. may sound like a lot, but you have to be very efficient to make a living doing it.
Author:  peterm [ Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:38 pm ]
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[QUOTE=SteveS]   I'd probably end up making about $5.00 per hour, just like my building.   

Thanks again, I really appreciate the help.[/QUOTE]

Steve, do what I did.... raise your prices and you'll be making $6.00 per hour....
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