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Neck repair advice, please.
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=11466		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Sam Price [ Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:36 am ]
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Someone has just e-mailed some photographs of a beautiful electric bass that his wife bought last year; an unfortunate incident caused the neck to snap. Here are some photographs to highlight the problem;



Now, I am willing to undertake this repair, but firstly, does that wood "rot" concern anyone greatly?

DO I need to scrape out that wood and replace the cavity with epoxy, or because of the nature of this instrument being an archtop electric bass, the string pressure won't be great as to be a problem?

You see, I am concerned that any sanding/gouging would compromise the neck angle of this instrument. To me, this would be a straightforward glue-and clamp.






here is the instrument in context.



I would really appreciate your advice and wonder whether that "rot" that was caused by damp ingress would be a bargaining chip for my poor friend to secure a replacement, as the instrument is under warranty.

Thankyou for reading this.


Author:  Kim [ Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:46 am ]
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IMHO, tell'em to take it back Sam. I doubt that the separation would have occurred had the wood not been damaged prior to construction. If you look at the first image you can see the mold stained wood on the neck shaft UNDER the finish. Take it back.

Cheers

Kim
Author:  Sam Price [ Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:51 am ]
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Flipping heck, I can see it!!!

Do you mean here?



These things cost $900 brand new!!

Author:  Pwoolson [ Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:53 am ]
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I agree with Kim, once the finish was on, there is no way for rot to have gotten in there. It had to have been started prior to finish. I'd say don't do anything to it (you'll void the warranty) and have your friend take it back.
Author:  Kim [ Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Yep, that's it.

[QUOTE=Sam Price] Flipping heck, I can see it!!!

Do you mean here?



These things cost $900 brand new!!

[/QUOTE]
Author:  Sam Price [ Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:59 am ]
Post subject: 
Brilliant. Many thanks.

Yet again I am stunned by the fast replies. I can now email my friend and tell him he has every reason to proceed with trying to get a replacement.

This instrument was purchased in Germany, so thier fluent-German speaking son is interpreting for them, as they have already entered into warranty discussions with the company they bought it from.

Hypothetically, if they persue this as far as they can(the company are presently digging their heels), and yet they cannot secure a replacement, would a straightforward glue and clamp be the answer, should they want to keep this instrument?

Author:  crazymanmichael [ Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:02 am ]
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this appears to clearly be a case of defective materials and should be replaced under warranty.
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:30 am ]
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Go for the replacement- tell the owner to 'dig in her heels' and be persistent.

If I had to repair it, I'd consider using a couple of loose tenons or similar (biscuits) and epoxy. I'd want to span across the defective wood if I could.

John
Author:  Martin Turner [ Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:57 am ]
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Definitely a "rotten deal" IMO
Author:  A Peebels [ Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:12 pm ]
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Looks like a design problem as well. The neck is supported by a small cross section of wood at the heel, and I would bet that the manufacturer will be plagued with warranty problems. When combined with defective wood the break that happened is inevitable. Too bad because it looks like a high quality instrument otherwise.

Al
Author:  old man [ Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
I wouldn't touch it as a repair. But if you had to, I would certainly wipe it with clorox to kill the mold/mildew and leave it exposed to the air and light until it was really dry. Then if the wood is sound, it could probably be fixed long enough to sell it. A dowel would certainly help, but that neck is harboring a lot more of the same problem. Surely the company will replace it.

Ron
Author:  Sam Price [ Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks. I suspected there was something that could be wiped onto the wood. What I am puzzled about it that if the wood was damp, surely there would be warping, as well as the compromise to structural integrity?

Yeah, I hope they can get a replacement. It was $900 brand new.

I am just preparing myself in the event that they decide not to proceed with the repair. It's not as if they have the time to take this issue to higher levels, legally....
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:23 am ]
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[QUOTE=Sam Price] What I am puzzled about it that if the wood was damp, surely there would be warping, as well as the compromise to structural integrity?

[/QUOTE]

The damage/defect in the wood could have occurred years ago- before the tree was harvested, or when it was in the rough plank.
I wouldn't worry about trying to 'kill the mould' since most wood fungi require very damp conditions for growth and the neck will be dry 'from now on'. Treating with bleach, etc is more likely to cause problems for you rather than solve them.
Of course, if you plan on using hot, moist, fungus food (aka hide glue) for the repair you may want to re-think the plan! I'd use a good structural epoxy and keep the instrument below 150 deg F for the rest of its life.

Cheers

John
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:13 am ]
Post subject: 
What John said; just because there's fungal damage (minor) doesn't mean it's affected the structural integrity per se. Hell, some folks pay for spalt, and some spalt is really very sound wood, which is generally far more affected.

Maple grays/molds quickly if it's not sawn up and set to dry quickly enough; the stains don't go away afterwards, even if it has been kiln dried. But still, I wouldn't use stuff with obvious mold in a neck.
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:32 am ]
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To add to Mattia's point about not using moldy wood:
Often/usually the fungus exploits an existing 'weakness' in order to penetrate the wood. I've found 'hidden splits' in sound-looking boards- as you all have as well. The fungus is just showing the location of a pre-existing fault in many cases.
John
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:35 am ]
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But (as pointed out) some fungus stains have no structural consequences or causes.
I guess that's why working wood is more interesting than working plastic/steel, etc! Always something that doesn't follow the rules!
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:36 am ]
Post subject: 
given the value, if the vendor won't do the right thing it would qualify as a small claims court matter, no? no need for solicitors and a lot of the legalistic hoo ha that accompanies major damage suits.
Author:  outstrung [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Please let us know if the warranty works out. I would hope that a company
would replace a rotted item.
Author:  bob J [ Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Are there any 'luthiers' websites in Ger. visited by luthiers and musicians where you can 'discuss' the 'problem' with this company's problem?
Author:  Sam Price [ Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:10 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=outstrung] Please let us know if the warranty works out. I would hope that a company
would replace a rotted item. [/QUOTE]

I'm seeing my pal on Thursday night...I want to know what the outcome will be, too.

However, I have the glue and dowels (for loose tenon) ready...
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