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Ubeaut Hard Shellac
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=11515		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  LuthierSupplier [ Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:46 am ]
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Just wanted to give an update on this product. I gave a few bottles of this to Edward Dick of EVD instruments, and he has been using it for a month now. He has used it on repairs (broken headstock) and on 2 Banjola's that he is working on. He first applied Z-poxy as the pore filler and filled the pores completely. Then he sprayed this hard shellac without thinning it at all. He used a little Preval sprayer like this. He says he is really impressed with how easy it sprays on, and how hard it gets. Compared to regular shellac, he says it sprays better, lays down easier coat after coat, gets harder faster, and sands easier than regular shellac. He says that it even french polishes easier! He is very impressed with this product, and will use it for repairs, touch-ups, and smaller instruments where he doesn't want to use lacquer. The only thing we don't know at this point is how hard it will get over time.

I'm about to start finishing my little uke with it on top of z-poxy, so I'll let you know what I find out with first hand experience. Hope some of you got in on this product, because last time I called Penn Industries they only had 20 bottles left, and that was about 3 weeks ago. Not sure if we will ever be able to get this product again.
Tracy
Author:  Kim [ Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:24 am ]
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Thanks for the update Tracey,

I have never used this product myself, but I fully intend to since seeing PaulB's superb effort on his Tassi Blackwood creation.

One thing I have noticed in nearly every post I have read here and there on the Internet is that Ubeaut's Hard Shellac seems to be viewed with a healthy dose of scepticism by many first reading about it, the product just seems too good to be true.

The main point of concern with those who have not actually tried the product first hand appears to be in Hard Shellac's ability to "burn in" like a regular shellac in order to affect an invisible repair.

The consensus among the sceptics seems to be that if indeed this stuff has additives which cross link, or polymerise over time forming a harder more durable finish which is also more resistant to the effects of alcohol and sweat etc, how can it be just as easily repaired as FP once that polymerization process has taken place??

Well, I do not know the answer to that question. But I am certain that because it appears that everyone who HAS actually tried Ubeaut's Hard Shellac seems to be instantly won over by it, that we would not be the only group of people who are showing an interest in this product.

Cheers

Kim

Author:  CarltonM [ Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:26 am ]
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Thanks for the review, Tracy. If it works that well (and I'd trust Ed Dick) there'll be a continuing demand for Ubeaut, and where there's demand, there's supply (I hope!).

Anybody else popped the lid on your bottle?
Author:  LuthierSupplier [ Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:56 am ]
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Hesh, maybe you can try Robbie's FP method using this shellac. Just thin it the same as in the DVD, and use the same techniques. Maybe just do it on the back of your guitar first to see the results before doing the rest.

When I do my uke, I'm just going to brush it on over 2 days, 3 coats a day, for 6 total coats. I'll just let it sit for 7 days, then level it with sandpaper and then let sit for another 7 days, then buff out. If the customer wants a satin finish, I'll go ahead and do this after 7 days and be done!

Something else I forgot to mention that Edward said...he said it does not shrink back as much like regular shellac. It goes on nice, and pretty much stays that way. He will be giving me one of those banjola's, so when I get it, I'll take some pics of the finish. It is a Koa/Cedar mix by the way.
Tracy
Author:  PaulB [ Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:52 pm ]
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It's about a 4# cut neat out of the bottle, so for good FP results you'll need to thin it down some. That was my problem at first, I was wiping it off as I was putting it down, a thinner mix builds faster - go figure. Then I spied the spray gun.

I sprayed it neat, two coats, it took about a month to fully harden at about 25deg C. now a couple months later it's really hard. I didn't level until it was hardened, and went through to the wood in a couple of small places. I just FP'd those spots for an invisible repair. This stuff is pretty versatile.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:30 pm ]
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If it does everything it is said to do, but it also is true that we can't be sure we will ever get it again, then why bother with it?
Author:  Kim [ Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:57 pm ]
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Paul and I and any other Aussie OLFers interested won't have any problems getting the stuff Howard so it is very relevant to us, and, if it does perform so well, then maybe Lee Valley or some other distributor will pick it up once the word gets around.

Cheers

Kim
Author:  Martin Turner [ Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:44 pm ]
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I'm sure if Neil is made aware of the demand for Hard Shellac then hell ensure that more of the stuff reaches the US.

Author:  LuthierSupplier [ Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:11 am ]
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Howard,
Neil was actually on the OLF, and has responded to our requests. I have his direct email, and will make sure he is aware of the demand if need be. Worst case, I would even be willing to become a distributor if Penn Industries decides not to. So I'm sure we'll be seeing more of this product.
Tracy
Author:  Lillian F-W [ Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:46 am ]
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That works for me Tracy. Do you need to see a show of hands of those that would be interested in you carrying Ubeaut?

Author:  LuthierSupplier [ Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:15 am ]
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Thanks for the vote of confidence Lillian, but if Penn Industries has already struck a deal with them, I surely do not want to interfere. Not only that, it is a real pain to sell this product because of a hazmat permit to ship flamable materials. If I don't have to hassle with that, then I won't. But if no one else steps up, I'll do it. Thanks!
Tracy
Author:  j.Brown [ Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:58 am ]
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I was assured by Neil himself that it repairs very well even after it has crosslinked.
-j.
Author:  PaulB [ Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:48 am ]
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A couple months ago I was trying to talk shane into bringing it in to north america.

I don't see why Neil doesn't do what Coke does; take three parts of part A, mix with two parts of part B. The hassle has been shipping a flammable liquid - import duties up the wahzoo. The flammable part is already over there in abundance, they really just need someone to mix it and bottle it over there.

Unless I'm missing something.
Author:  PaulB [ Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:42 pm ]
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Heshtone, Yeah I was thinking the same thing, but there are ways to protect your IP. How many people know how coca cola is made? And how many places around the world make it? Mostly it's so they're not shipping mostly water, but they do protect their IP.

And anyway, he told me on another forum what the secret ingredient was, I think I even mentioned it here a few times not knowing that it was a secret.
Author:  mag29 [ Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:15 pm ]
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I know the importer here in Europe and have some bottles on order, coming with the next shipment from Australia. I could try to find out if there is a way to ship and can help a few of you.


Martin
Author:  CarltonM [ Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:15 pm ]
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Great offer, Martin! I think there are still a few bottles available in the U.S., though, and if they sell I'd wager that more will make it to North America. Besides, if you forward some, it would just be an indecent number of oceans that the poor stuff would have crossed.    It's hazardous material, too, which may cause you problems in shipping to N.A..
Author:  CarltonM [ Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:16 pm ]
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Oh, and Martin, have you used the Ubeaut? If so, could you give us your impressions?
Author:  mag29 [ Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:48 pm ]
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[QUOTE=CarltonM]Great offer, Martin! I think there are still a few bottles available in the U.S., though, and if they sell I'd wager that more will make it to North America. Besides, if you forward some, it would just be an indecent number of oceans that the poor stuff would have crossed.    It's hazardous material, too, which may cause you problems in shipping to N.A..[/QUOTE]


Carlton,


I know it is hazardous and will try to figuere out a legal way if there is any interest. No, I haven?t used it, I ordered some bottles out of personal interest when I recently read about this. I want to see myself ;-)


Thanks,
Martin
Author:  bob_connor [ Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:17 pm ]
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Maybe Penn State or Lee Valley will get it in this size if you ask.

Author:  Arnt Rian [ Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:17 pm ]
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[QUOTE=PaulB] ...I was wiping it off as I was putting it down, a thinner mix builds faster - go figure. Then I spied the spray gun.

I sprayed it neat, two coats, it took about a month to fully harden at about 25deg C. now a couple months later it's really hard... [/QUOTE]

Hi Paul, I stink at french polishing, but I have sprayed regular shellac with decent results. The hard shellac has to build a LOT faster than regular shellac if two coats was sufficient. With ordinary shellac I spray several thin coats, level and then let it cure for about a month before I buff, in other words treat it pretty much like lacquer. I wonder if thinner coats of the hard shellac would have made the Ubeat cure faster, like Edward Dick reported (he didn't mention how fast his shellac cured though)?

[QUOTE=LuthierSupplier] He says he is really impressed with how easy it sprays on, and how hard it gets. Compared to regular shellac, he says it sprays better, lays down easier coat after coat, gets harder faster, and sands easier than regular shellac....

... The only thing we don't know at this point is how hard it will get over time.
Tracy[/QUOTE]

It does seem to get harder than regular shellac though, doesn't it? That is why they call it "hard shellac", right? Like I said, I don't find regular shellac that hard to spray, and I also think it is pretty hard, but I wish it would build faster.

I may have to get in touch with Martin about this (who also sells what seems to be some very nice euro spruce, hmmm...)
Author:  PaulB [ Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:08 pm ]
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[QUOTE=Arnt] [QUOTE=PaulB] ...I was wiping it off as I was putting it down, a thinner mix builds faster - go figure. Then I spied the spray gun.

I sprayed it neat, two coats, it took about a month to fully harden at about 25deg C. now a couple months later it's really hard... [/QUOTE]

Hi Paul, I stink at french polishing, but I have sprayed regular shellac with decent results. The hard shellac has to build a LOT faster than regular shellac if two coats was sufficient. With ordinary shellac I spray several thin coats, level and then let it cure for about a month before I buff, in other words treat it pretty much like lacquer. I wonder if thinner coats of the hard shellac would have made the Ubeat cure faster, like Edward Dick reported (he didn't mention how fast his shellac cured though)?[/QUOTE]

Arnt yeah, more lighter coats would have been better as far as cure times go. My problem was that I only had 500mL of the stuff, and a brandnew spray gun that needed a proper setup for this material. I could have used my entire supply just setting up the gun - it's been a long long time since I got paid for spray painting. Next time I'll get 5L of the stuff and take my time setting up the gun properly. If I can get it right (and I'm sure I can) I think the finish straight out of the gun will be fairly impressive. This stuff just wants to shine.
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