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| 1950 D-28 tuner replacement? http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=11560 |
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| Author: | pharmboycu [ Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:58 pm ] |
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I posted this over on the Martin forum, but I hope ya'll don't mind me asking your advice as well... Thanks! John Hi everyone... been looking for a set of tuners and need some advice. My 1950 D-28 has the waffle back original tuners and I'm looking for a set to replace them as the G string has started to slack off. Please note, this is not due to any string issues itself, the actual tuning key turns backwards when at pitch from the tension and when tuning up feels like it has a cam in it rather than a circular gear. (That's the only way I know to describe it.) The tuning is not as reliable as it should be. All of the tuners I can find have the center to center distance between the mounting holes of right at an inch within a few thousands. The mounting holes on this instrument are 1.080" within a couple of thousands. This translates to just enough difference that new holes would be required, which I am not willing to do to this instrument. That said, I'm left asking a 2 part question: 1) Is there a set of replacement tuners that would allow me to retrofit with no alteration to the instrument, and if not, 2) would anyone be able to point me in the right direction to find a vintage replacement tuner or tuners for this instrument? Thank you to any and all who respond in advance! |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Sun Apr 08, 2007 3:02 pm ] |
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John, If you contact someone who's business is vintage guitars they have sources for vintage stuff like tuners I believe. Maybe Frank Ford. He posts here sometimes. |
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| Author: | tippie53 [ Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:04 pm ] |
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Dave musselwhite , if anyone has one it may be he. Steve Kovacik may also. Dave is in jonestown pa and is in the book. Give him a call john hall |
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:58 am ] |
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May I make a suggestion? My son and I worked through his science project of string tension on guitars. No awards but we learned and I think that is the goal of those projects. What we learned is that the G string on an acoustic, requires the most tension of any string. Therefore, it's entire life, that string has taken a load the others do not. Swap the B tuner, for the G tuner and give it a try. What do you have to lose. The lighter load of th B string should give that worn tuner a rest of sorts and it may just be able to handle less tension. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:10 am ] |
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Now that is an interesting idea, Bruce. Is the B the lightest load of the strings as they were tested? |
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:19 am ] |
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The G is the highest load, the B is lighter than the E believe it or not. Matter of fact, the core of the G is the same as an E on most sets. Then add the weight of the brass winding and well, it's the one that most often breaks under stress, that tells you something right there. Take a look at the back of the D'Addario packages and see the tension. I don't have one available at the moment. |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:55 am ] |
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It's also worth looking in to where the slippage is actually taking place. It's near impossible for the sprocket on the post to actually turn the worm gear on anything greater than a 4:1 ratio. Those are probably 12:1, and if anything is actually slipping it would likely be the shaft to sprocket joint. If you pull out the screw you will probably find either the sprocket sheared on the inside edge (I don't recall if those shafts are toothed or flat) or the end of the shaft stripped. In any case, tuners can usually be repaired. In the above case some thin brass shim stock to tighten the joint can sometimes be enough. If not, peining or even keying the shaft/ sprocket can often be done while keeping it hid neatly under the screw. Your description of a "cam" feel would lead me to believe that the sprocket is perhaps stripped inside and now off center, in which case shimming on the appropriate side could help. The journals that hold the worm gear / key shaft can also come loose, and can typically be peined from the underside to resecure them. My point is that most of these old tuners are relatively easy to service, and can often be repaired rather than replaced. It's a relatively simple machine, and you just need to figure out where the slipping is happening and go from there. Sometimes it can be as simple as tightening a screw, although your case certainly sounds like a little more than that. |
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| Author: | pharmboycu [ Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:48 am ] |
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Thanks for the idea of swapping the G and B tuners! I will do that before Friday night's gig. (It's a hard core bluegrass show... I may surprise them and blow them all out of the water with my E2 though.) I wondered about taking the tuner apart to check the alignment of the gears, but I don't see an obvious way to get the waffle back off without damaging it. Does anyone have any experience with this type of tuner? Thanks again to all of you for responding! |
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:44 pm ] |
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Pop it off and take some pics. |
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