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Quality used bandsaw - where to look?
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Author:  harmonist34 [ Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:01 pm ]
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My wife and I were given an "early inheritance" by her grandfather with the request that we spend it on things that would last and that we could remember him by. He helped me build my first (and only to this point) guitar and has been a dedicated woodworker later in life, so we've decided to spend half of the money on putting together a wood shop of our own. I picked up a good used Delta drill press for $100 the other day and have been considering bandsaw options.

Other than the obvious - ebay, craigslist, local newspapers - any good ideas on where I might find a quality bandsaw without buying one new?

I'm thinking 16" or more and at least 1.5hp, preferably 2. The laguna rep's already working on me since I requested a DVD, but I'm thinking that $1800 ist just more than I want to spend on one piece of equipment.

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated...

Andrew Wright
Indianapolis, IN

Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:12 pm ]
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Andrew-
Good luck with your quest.
You might see if there are any used industrial machinery dealers in your area- sometimes they have larger woodworking tools. Another possibility is industrial auctions. Often industrial tools have been 'rode hard and put away wet' so you can be involved in bearing rebuilds, etc or paying the dealer to have done the refurbishing for you. This can get expensive in a hurry unless you have an interest in old machinery, and tools to do the job.
Sometimes you can get 'huge' bandsaws cheap, but they are hard to move and often need 3-phase power, so that is another wrinkle.

My guess is that the Laguna @ $1800 may look better and better as time goes by.

I assume you want the larger saw for resawing? I bought a 16" saw a few months ago and thought I'd retire my old 12" saw. I didn't; it was less hassle to keep the smaller saw with a narrow blade for general use and leave the bigger one set up for resawing. I only mention this to suggest that you might want to look for a used 12" saw for general use now, rather than trying to find a 'does everything' saw.



Cheers

John
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:26 pm ]
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Have you looked at the Rikon bandsaws?  The 14 inch has a 13 inch resaw capacity (standard) and a 1 1/2 hp motor.  Woodcraft sells this model for around $750.00.  My understanding is that they get pretty good ratings.
Author:  harmonist34 [ Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:33 pm ]
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Yes - the Rikon's definitely a possibility. I did an archive search and found a link to the outstanding article on bandsaws from American Woodworker. They had some nice things to say about the Rikon there. But I'm concerned about the longevity of the Rikon and I want to make sure that I've got all the horses I need to resaw as I imagine I'll be worse at it than most and can use the help!

Andrew
Author:  GregG [ Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:51 pm ]
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I have a Minimax, and yes it was expensive, but worth every penny to me....I'd feel the same way about a Laguna. You'll never regret buying either one of these saws even at new prices.

Greg
Author:  tippie53 [ Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:04 am ]
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I have an old Walker Turner. The thing is a total workhorse. Solid and the day it was built and the nice thing is it is all cast iron and the bearings on it are standard and replacable.
   In any case look for quality not price. Things you need to be aware of is bearings and the size . can you get replacments locally or need to special order.
   A 16 inch may be bigger but can to the larger jobs with more accuracy. Find what looks good to you. A good used saw can be as good as a new one if it was taken care of.
   Things you want to look at on a used one is the tires, are they in good shape. Is the guiding system stable and have no play. IS the table adjustable to keep squared up. Also look at the top wheels travel system. It is white metal or steel.
good luck on your search
john hall
blues creek guitars
Author:  SimonF [ Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:22 am ]
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Andrew, if I might make a suggestion. If the guitar building and having a
quality workshop is something you think you will really continue to use a
lot - then you really need to get the nicest tool you can.

In my opinion, in order, these are the most important big tools for a
builder:

1) bandsaw
2) router/router table
3) jointer
4) abrasive sander
5) drill press
6) table saw

I own very nice quality tools of all the above except a table saw - that's
right, I don't have a table saw - not enought room in my shop. But
although it would be nice to have one, I find that because my other
equipment is of such high quality, I get along fine without one. I have
spent about $15k just on items #1 thru #5. I don't regret spending the
money.

If you can't afford a tool at present, don't get one just because you don't
have the money. Rather wait until you can afford the one you want -
trading up always involves wasting a lot of money.

Now getting back to the bandsaw question. Bandsaws are very simple
machines and what you need is a strong frame, good wheels and
bearings, good blade guide system, and a REALLY good blade. For the
kind of work we do, you really want a nice carbide blade. I bought mine
from Suffolk Machinery and it is a night and day difference when cutting
hardwoods.

For the record, you will get more machine for your money by going with
Grizzly. However, I don't recommend their smaller saws but their 18" and
bigger is good quality. I have researched the topic heavily and own very
quality machines (including a $6,000 MiniMax Jointer/Planer) - so I have a
high standard to judge by.

I personally would recommend this scenario to you. Get this machine
from Grizzly - the 21" 5HP G0531 (http://www.grizzly.com/products/
G0531). You will want to switch out their guides with Carter guides -
which IMHO are the best on the market and will cost you around $250.
You will want to get a carbide blade from either Lennox or my personal
preference is the Suffolk 1" carbide blade. It is the only blade that Bob
Taylor uses and therefore you know it is the absolute best blade for
instrument builders.

You will have a killer setup with this machine. It will not be as finely
made as the MiniMax or the step below it, Laguna - but it will work great
and in some ways outperform the other machines at the same price point.   

I personally would not want a smaller machine than the 21" because it
prohibits you from using certain blades. 18" is workable but is not ideal
for carbide - although, many folks do so without any trouble at all.

For what it is worthy, my sales rep at MiniMax said he was impressed with
the quality of the upper end Grizzly bandsaws. They are good saws and
you will get more saw than going with Laguna or MiniMax - as you pay a
lot of money just for getting the saws over here from Europe.



Best of Luck,
Simon



Author:  SimonF [ Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:27 am ]
Post subject: 
For the record, I own the 24" Grizzly bandsaw. I have thrown all sorts of
exotic woods on there - including stuff like Desert Ironwood (one of the
densest and hardest woods known and makes ebony look like balsa) and
it is functioned perfectly. But remember the blade is what does all the
work - that is why I recommend you go with one of the bigger machines
so you can put a nice carbide blade on their. Trust me, you will not
regret it and your bandsaw will be a dream to work with.

Peace Out,
Simon
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:55 am ]
Post subject: 
contrary to filippo, i consider used stationary machines to be very good buys. unless disastrously neglected they last a lifetime and are easily repairable.

and like john hall, i also have an ancient walker turner bandsaw, a 16", 8 speed beast that is surely not much fun to move but is sure great to work on. even the wheel housings and doors on the thing are castings. one great old saw.

as to other sources; schools, universities and government bodies often sell off gear on sealed bid. i know a north carolina luthier who picked up his delta 20" saw, listed as non-operational, on a bid to the local school board, for $200. its sole mechanical problem? it needed a drive belt!!!

the 14" saws, e.g., delta and jet, are commonly available in my area in the classified adds and a "for sale" paper called the "iwanna". many areas have similar publications. auctions, estate sales and garage sales are also good sources.

whilst i don't deny that a top of the line laguna or minimax may be a bood to the wood dealer who has heavy resawing needs, a good used machine will serve the working luthier or hobbyist long and well for a lot fewer dollars, which are then available for other tools, or, well, maybe some koa or brw to stash away.

Author:  Brook Moore [ Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:31 am ]
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Try these on-line classfieds:
http://woodcentral.com/newforum/classifieds.shtml
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/forumdisplay.php?f=10
http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/exchanges/machinery.cgi

I have a 15 year old Laguna 16, and think it is pretty good but not great. I
find the sheet metal structure to be more flexible than I would like.
Maybe that has been improved by now. You should really consider getting
2 bandsaws: the bigger your saw, the more of a pain it is too change from
a re-saw to a small blade. I picked up one of the Sears/Rikon 10" saws on
sale for $100, and am very happy with its quality. It's great to have that
little sucker always sitting there with a small blade on it, and a big-blade
on the 16". For your big bandsaw, I agree that bigger is better if you have
the room and money.

Good luck,
Brook
Author:  Brad Way [ Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:29 am ]
Post subject: 
I looked for a used quality bandsaw for months. I didn't find anything that great until one day a 3 year old Laguna showed up on Ebay in my area. I bid on the saw and lost the auction because the saw sold for 5% less than a new saw which I thought was crazy. After that I decided to stop looking used and purchased a Minimax MM16 new. It wasn't cheap but I am very happy with the quality.

Good Luck!
Author:  harmonist34 [ Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:05 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the advice all - this has been a great discussion. I do plan to resaw. I can certainly see the wisdom of spending the $1600 (or whatever amount of money) on a "pretty good" resaw machine and a "good enough" small bandsaw rather than trying to find a perfect all-around machine. I'm going to give that some more thought.

Andrew

Author:  Howard Klepper [ Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:18 am ]
Post subject: 
Last chance for someone to get my 36" Oliver before I put it on Craigslist. SF Bay area. I can put it on your truck, but I can't deliver. 5hp 3-phase.
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:26 am ]
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and i called my puny little 16" w-t a beast....

and i have the phase converter to make it work on your single phase power.
Author:  Brock Poling [ Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:14 am ]
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[QUOTE=Howard Klepper] Last chance for someone to get my 36" Oliver before I put it on Craigslist. SF Bay area. I can put it on your truck, but I can't deliver. 5hp 3-phase.[/QUOTE]

Man, if I only lived close to you... that is a fantastic opportunity.

Author:  crazymanmichael [ Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:14 am ]
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i'm unaware of what part of the country you reside in but down hear the 14" deltas, etc., are plentiful on the used market. there is usually at least one advertised most weeks. maybe we have a higher population of woodworkers upgrading, or maybe a higher rate of dropouts.

for a while i bought used machines at auctions, garage and estate sales and onsell. it became unworthwhile as prices started going up; there just wasn't the headroom to make anything.

still have my van with the hydraulic lift that i used to haul stuff to and fro. perhaps it's time to think about onselling it?
Author:  harmonist34 [ Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:18 am ]
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Was contacted with an intriguing option. Couple year old as-new MM16 with mobility kit and a few extra blades for $2200. Would be doing the "all my eggs in one basket" approach, but everything I've heard says that the MM16 is an awesome machine.

Andrew

Author:  Doug O [ Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:23 pm ]
Post subject: 

Michael,


One of the lessons I seem to have to re-learn from time to time is to always buy the best the first time.  I just upgraded my 15" Jet planer, and 6" Powermatic jointer to a 20" planer with Byrd carbide head and 12" jointer.  Should have bought the bigger machines the first time.


I have a 20" bandsaw from Sunhill and recently bought a 14" Powermatic.  I like the 20" for resawing, but use the 14" way more than I thought I would.  If I had it to do over again I would buy a Minimax. 


One thing to remember about manufacturer's horse power ratings - they don't mean anything.  What really matters is the amperage rating.


The previous reccomendation on carbide blades for resawing is spot on.  I'm currently running a 1" Laguna resaw blade and don't like it - stick with the Lennox or Suffolk.


The link below is for a machinery outlet in my area that ships nationwide.  He sells "scratch and dent" Jet, Poermatic, and Wilton.  Ususally his stuff is brand new and had a frieght damaged box.


http://www.equipmentsalesandsurplus.com/


Doug


 
Author:  Lillian F-W [ Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ah Doug, Sweetie isn't going to like you. That place is right down the hill from us. Oh this is going to be painful.

Thanks.
Author:  SimonF [ Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Andrew,
The MM16 is a very nice bandsaw - nice features and better quality than a
Grizzly. I normally don't recommend Grizzly for certain machines - but
the bandsaw is a very simple machine. My personal opinion is that you
will get a heck of a lot more machine spending your $2200 on a new
Grizzly than the MM16. The bigger Grizzly bandsaws are industrial
machines in every sense of the word. I could easily be resawing 16"
boards all day long with my 24" Grizzly. The reason I chose that over the
MM16 was because it is more powerful, the huge cast iron wheels have
enough momentum to cut through just about anything, and it has a much
bigger table.

If you are very savy, you should be able to find a great deal on a used
machine but with power tools I really like to have that year of warranty.
And with Grizzly, if something is perfect, you just ask them to send you
out another part.

Like the others have said, get the best tool you can that you think you will
take full advantage of. Obviously, getting a Martin sliding table is a just a
tad bit ridiculous for guitar building. But you get the point.

Best of luck,
Simon
Author:  GregG [ Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
I can't speak for the Grizzly machine, but the MM16 is a heck of a saw and you will not regret the purchase. I change blades all of the time on mine, it only takes a few minutes, no big deal and well worth the trouble in my mind. I've had lesser saws that will do the job, but this one is a joy to use with power to spare. Simon does have a point about the size advantage of a 20+ inch saw, not that you would ever need more resaw height than the 16" on my MM16, but the added table size and space between blade and frame would be nice at times. But, that saw(20+") is going to be HUGE so you better have room...they are also taller so check your space. Some of the older MM16 saws did not have 16" of resaw capacity and they had a smaller motor, so if that matters, check out these features on the MM16 you are looking at....the older ones are still great machines.

Greg
Author:  GregG [ Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've seen that review Todd, I believe that Laguna has since increased the power in their saw to a Baldor 5hp, but I think the other issues are still there, either way I'd take the MM.

Greg
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:30 am ]
Post subject: 
I believe in having 2 bandsaws, and I also believe in large, used stationary machines!   There is nothing like mass to make a big machine stable, and older machines also usually have very good mechanics and motors. I have an old Italian Centaur 24" / 3hp / 3 phase saw, but I also have a new 12" Asian import; one for resawing and larger material and one for, well...smaller things. They both required a bit of tinkering and upgrades to run smoothly initially (and for different reasons), but bandsaws are such simple machines that once you get familiar with the principles there is really not much to it. Get "the Bandsaw Book" and go for it.
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:34 am ]
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Forgot to add (and since we don't have an edit button...):

I don't know about over on your side, but over here used machines are but a fraction of the cost of new ones, and you can do a lot of upgrades for the money you save. Will you end up with a better machine in the end? Who knows, but I do know the money saved can be used on wood!
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