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12 String Choices
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Author:  bob_connor [ Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:30 am ]
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Hi Everyone

I'm building a left handed SJ 12 string.

It will be used for live work with a K & K Pure Western. The player is a mate of mine and he gets fairly aggressive on stage but uses a light pick.

The band consists of drums, bass, fiddle, two acoustics/mandolin, playing uptempo Irish stuff. I don't want this guitar to mush into the mix. (it's in my interest as I'm in the band too and I'll
have to live with this for a long time. )

The back and sides are Padauk and are completed and I'm
now pondering what sort of top to throw on it.

The choices I have are Adi, Bearclaw Sitka, Lutz or Englemann.

What would you do, bearing in mind the top end jangle that a lot of 12 strings have?

The other consideration is scale length. Taylor and Guild have 25ish length scales whereas the Martin D28-12 is 24.9 (the other Martin models are 25.34).

The short scale will put less strain on the top and neck but will this have any trade off tonally.

Any bracing suggestions to complement the above considerations would be welcome.

Your input will be invaluable and it should make for an interesting discussion.

Cheers


Author:  KiwiCraig [ Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:19 am ]
Post subject: 

G'day Bob,

            With my current 12 string project I have elected a 24.9 scale . A bit less tension and a slight ease in playing considering the wider neck.

A 13 fretter, Which I'm hoping will be a little less leverage on the neck , but more importantly ,place the bridge back to a better part of the soundboard .

I've also used an Englemann top . I'm hoping to lesson the 'jangle' with an Englemann tone.

My bracing is very light , but still incorperated the third lower tone bar , although it is really small ( 6m.m. in hieght ).

Also I have included a Lowden type A-Frame to help cope with the extra string tension . Hope this helps.




Cheers Craig
Author:  KiwiCraig [ Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:40 am ]
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I also have a soundport !! The little Paua Kiwi is inlaid into the headblock.
Author:  Kim [ Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Very Cool Craig

Cheers

Kim
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Bob,
I wouldn't necessarily choose the top on generalities.
I'd pick the stiffest top you've got. In other words, I think any of those species would work, if they were stiff enough.
You are quite correct about the upper end jangle. I built a 12 string using a Koa top. It sounded like Roger McGuinn with the treble all the way on 10. Amazing...the sister 6 string with a sister Koa top sounded dark, rich and anything but trebly.
I used the 3rd tone bar, as well as a 3rd finger brace.
Oh yes, also a larger bridge plate. Don't scallop the "X".

Good luck,
Steve
Author:  Andy Zimmerman [ Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have made one SJ 12 string and I used Lutz and it turned out fantastic.
It was matched with cocobolo back and sides

My next one will be Lutz and Cuban Mahogany
Author:  Dave White [ Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Bob,

I made an 8 string guitar-cittern with a Lutz top and the Lutz really works well with the double course strings. These were in unison pairs rather than octave, but I think it would work great for a 12 string.

Craig,

That looks great. The light bracing will work very well I think.
Author:  bob_connor [ Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Craig - I've admired the workmanship in that 12 of yours since you first posted it. How is progress going with it?

Love the Kiwi too. I'm hoping for a meeting in the world cup final.

I'd basically made my mind up on what I was going to use for the top and it was between the Adi and the Lutz.

I'd trimmed up two of these tops a few months back and they were the same stiffness longitudinally, the adi was stiffer cross grain and was about 10 grams lighter.

So I'll agree with Steve and go with the stiffer of the two.

I've got some nice blackwood that I'm going to build a 12 for myself so the Lutz can go on that one for a comparison.

Thanks for the input Andy and Dave. If it turns out as well as your Coco one Andy I'll be very happy.

Cheers
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