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Inlay Scribe Lines (photo included)
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=11784		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  cbodie [ Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hey guys and gals!  Newbie here.  I have a question about
guitar inlays.  I'm working on a headstock inlay and I'm having a
little problem at this time.  Below you will see the inlay. 
It's made of pearl (24 pieces) and stained walnut (24 pieces - most
look white in the photo because the tracing paper is still on the
peice).  They alternate inlay material, and a "little larger than
a penny sized" center piece completes the inlay, which is a sun. 
You can see that this peice is rather small. 



After all my reading, I'm under the impression that I need to use the
EXACT peices to create the scribe lines.  This inlay takes a
pretty long time to set up, so I either need a slow setting glue or
some other method. 

How should I create scribe lines?????



Help  



Craig
Author:  old man [ Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hello, Craig, and welcome to the forum. Are you inlaying into ebony, or what?    There are several inlay people who can help here, especially Craig and Paul (experts). I'm sure they will be along shortly. I like the inlay. I could do it in ebony, but I'm not good enough yet to do it in a lighter wood.

Ron
Author:  clavin [ Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Craig Lavin Of www.handcraftinlay.com

There are basically two ways to do this- if the pieces are all interconnected- glue the entire thing together and treat it as one piece. That's how I do inlays ranging from 3 to 300 pieces. It's easier to manipulate that way.
OR- if there are thin seperations in the design, small spaces, etc...where the pieces need to look separate, use the pattern as a template and scribe to that. Just glue it down with 3M tack glue into position, then scribe that- then route, then inset. Or you can just rout right through the pattern in place, but scribing will be clearer.

Good luck.

Craig L
Author:  cbodie [ Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ron and Lavin, 



Thanks for the advice.  I am inlaying into a rosewood veneer on
top of standard dreadnaught guitar neck wood (sorry, the wood skips my
mind at this time).  



Ron.  Thanks for the welcome!  I have some African Blackwood
on standby if those stained walnut peices start giving me a hard time.



Lavin,   I needed someone with experience to go over my
options with me, so I don't mess this up.  The internet is great,
isn't it? 



Yes, there can be thin separations on this inlay.  I plan on
grinding up some ebony or african blackwood, creating a dust and
placing it in with the epoxy.   Then, all my little spaces
will be black and closely match the black peices.  (Actually, the
original design had thick black lines, so I expect the epoxy to cover
some error and give me room to breathe)   We'll see how that
turns out, I'm not expecting miracles, but willing to learn through
trial and error.



Glueing the inlay together first?  I don't think I have enough time to set it up before the glue hardens.



With that in mind, I think I'll scribe the pattern, and not the actual
inlay.  I need a recessed area in the form of the pattern to even
set this inlay up, so I'll use the guitar for that.



Craig
Author:  Terry Stowell [ Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hey Craig,

Be sure to post pix of your progress. And let's see that guitar too! Welcome to the OLF.
Author:  KiwiCraig [ Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:52 pm ]
Post subject: 


I had to join in with the rest of you Craig's.

This is the " Craig " Thread.

I can't offer the expertise of Craig Lavin . " He Da Man " but I'll throw in my 2 cents .

I glue the pieces to the inlay area with contact cement. Give it enough time to go off ,so that it won't move whilst you scribe around them . they come off easily with a razor blade underneath ( or turps ).

As Mr. Lavin points out , it is easier to join all the pieces together before inlaying if at all possible. It'll be fragile ,, but possible.

With my first inlay ( below ) , I lay all the pieces of the rose together on some double sided tape . I then piled ebony dust over it and worked it between all the pieces , leaving a small pile above level. I then hit it with C.A. . Once set , I peeled of the double sided tape ( very carefully) and trimmed off any excess C.A. and dust from the perimeter of the rose ,or in your case ,the sun . I gingerly glued it to my headstock , and scribed the outline. I very carefully slipped a razor blade underneath to release it .

It all came out O.K , and even Mr. Lavin gave it his approval !! Yoo Hoo
Author:  clavin [ Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi Craig.
You want the glue to harden.

Your assembling it off of the instrument.

1) Take an original pattern.
2) Take it and tape it to the table.
3) Put double sided clear tape over it.
4) Place all the pieces down on the tape as if it was assembled. Now they won't move, and can be organized.
5) Do the dust/glue over it as part of the assembly, then when it all dries (on the tape) take the entire glued together and assembled thing off the tape (use a little acetone to help remove it if needed)
6) Take this- glue it to the guitar and scribe the entire thing- inset it all as one piece, and glue it into the cavity.

This is one clear method of doing this. Hope this clarifies what I meant.

Craig L.
Author:  KiwiCraig [ Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:20 pm ]
Post subject: 

Yup ! , Thanks coach , That's just how I did it !

And many thanks Craig , for all the help and tips you give us all . I love to look at your beautiful work.

Craig Da Man ,, Yeh !


Cheers, Craig ( Lawrence )
Author:  clavin [ Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sorry- I didn't fully read your post with the same info- well done..   

And yes your rose is beautiful. Wether or not it gets any approval from anyone (and yes it does from me)
You should still be proud of it!   
Now get out that graver and start scaring yourself to death..
Craig L
Author:  cbodie [ Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:15 am ]
Post subject: 

Craig Lavin,


Thanks for the layout of the steps.  I feel that method will give me more control over my finished product, than scribing the pattern on the headstock.   Do you have recommendations for the type of glue to use with the dust? (Step 5 of your post)  Since you specifically mention "glue" I assume you don't mean expoxy, so therefore I need something clear?


KiwiCraig - Great first inlay!!  


Ron - Thanks for the compliment of the inlay.  I like the design, it has sentimental value, and it's a handful of work for a first inlay. 


The middle piece is a pearl circle.  I plan on cutting the circle with a jewler's saw (just like the other pieces).  Then placing the piece on a homemade (not sure how yet) turntable with double-sided tape.  Then grind it to create a closer-to-perfect circle.  Any other ideas off hand?


Craig Bodie
Author:  clavin [ Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:34 am ]
Post subject: 
I use stew-mac cyano-thin
wear a mask it's nasty nasty stuff. But it sticks well and works clear. I am starting to use epoxies for other areas in the process but it's more detailed.

As for cutting perfect circles- use a template to draw the circle to the right size- or whatever art programe you have- lay it up and focus on cutting it slowly and perfectly. A jewelers saw will give way more control than sanding.

Craig L.
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