Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi - I have been surprised latety just how many "quartersawn" mahogany neck blanks aren't even close to that.   I was concerned for my first guitar, with a walnut neck in this case, so I ripped it down the center to orient the grain against itself.  No big deal and makes an interesting cross pattern on the back of the headstock for a scarf joint.  My next order was a couple of mahogany necks, grain off by 30 degrees.  Tried another supplier, same thing.  Tried another supplier, who stated it would be within 20 degrees and it was exactly 45!  In about 7 blanks from various suppliers, I received 1 dead quartered blank and it was rock maple. 

So the question is ..... how far off quarter can you get away with without modifiying the neck?   I realize a lot of people add other strips in the center, but is this becoming a more common occurance? 

Laurie

 

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Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.

This has happened to me also and with the added shipping cost to AU quite often exceeding the cost of the product itself it truly is an infuriating discovery .

I do understand that 1/4 sawn hog is getting harder to source, but this is no excuse as the increase in pricing for this stock is already compensating for the supply issue. If a vendor is listing the product as 1/4 sawn, it should be very close to vertical, say within 10 to 15 degree, any more than that and the stock should be down graded in description and priced accordingly or it is quite simply dishonest and a clear misrepresentation in my opinion.

I have received well quartered stock from Steve at Colonial Tonewoods but then Steve never disappoints with quality or service on any order.

Cheers

Kim

I seem to remember reading somewhere of a national (U.S.) hardwood standard that allows anything up to twenty degrees off vertical to be called "quartersawn." However, I would think that suppliers of wood for lutherie would know that twenty degrees ain't quartered. Seems like you're taking a chance on a warped neck with anything over ten degrees, "stable" wood or not. Am I wrong?

An otherwise sound piece of mahogany will not suffer in strength if it is off-quarter by the 20-30 degrees. If you are installing a truss rod, you should have no problems. A piece(or two) of CF will make it even stronger. If you look at Martin, Taylor, or Gibson necks, vey few are dead quarter sawn. Fender's "golden era" necks were used as they came off the saw- flat, slab or whatever.
Quality hardwood is not becoming more plentiful nor large trees more abundant. Sawing on the quarter is inherently wastefull. All the major suppliers specify a range of grain angle in their QS woods because perfect vertical grain cannot be consistently supplied. If you have the luxury of perusing a pile of boards, then pick the best you can find, but you will more than likely not be happy with mail order woods if you insist on 90 degree grain.( Well, you could order 100 blanks at a time, cherry -pick the 20 or so perfect ones, and send the rest back. The supplier will not love you for that..)
JMHO.

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In Markham,Virginia

Do not worry !
As stated by Jon those necks will work fine.
I've repaired many old guitars(classicals) with slab Spanish cedar and have seen Martins with 45 degree necks.
Mahogany is a very stable & strong wood.

Mike Collins

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Mike Collins

I have never heard of any official government standard for quartersawn hardwoods(well short of 45 degree or better), Softwoods have their own regulations. Many standards or terminology used by luthiers are not familiar to mills. If you want quartersawn wood that is within a certain spec. you best specify. If the wood was sold as neck blanks and the seller stated the wood was within a certain spec. You should have recieved what you ordered.

As far as strength I have never run across documentation showing Mahogany to be weaker in flatsawn vs quartersawn orientation. Mahogany has a pretty close radial to tangential shrinkage ratio(like 3% to 5% if I remember correctly). I would be more worried if the wood was not straight grained. So as long as it is well stabalized before use it shouldn't be a problem. Not ideal, but should work.

If you pay a premium(and we do) for "instrument wood". We need to hold dealers accountable. There are a lot of poorly qualified internet dealers out there selling average lumber, and passing it off as "instrument grade" to mark up the price. It just goes to show you how important our forum supporters(who are extreamly knowledgable and reliable)are.

Peace,Rich

Mahogany is very stable, the neck will be fine. However, if a one piece neck is not quartered the figure will be asymmetrical, most noticeable in the heel and headstock regions. I like to orient the growth rings in two piece necks like so \\\///; in theory it should be stronger, and the heel looks better IMO.




...and here is the finished neck from the glue up above. Well, the picture does not really show it, but the lines on both sides of the heel converge at its center line, so it looks book matched (even though the it is not).

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Oooow, that's very pretty Arnt.

Cheers

Kim

I like that Arnt. Thanks for the pictures.

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Aoibeann

As to stability, I have about 10 HM 12 fret, bandsaw cut necks that I bought about 25 years ago.  Only a few of them were well quartered, but none have displayed any warping or changes of any kind.  Some were darn near flat-sawn.  They have not been treated with any particular care, other than sitting in an enclosed cabinet in my non-climate controlled (then) shop. If they were going to warp or twist, they would have.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

[QUOTE=larkim] This has happened to me also and with the added shipping cost to AU quite often exceeding the cost of the product itself it truly is an infuriating discovery .

I do understand that 1/4 sawn hog is getting harder to source, but this is no excuse as the increase in pricing for this stock is already compensating for the supply issue. If a vendor is listing the product as 1/4 sawn, it should be very close to vertical, say within 10 to 15 degree, any more than that and the stock should be down graded in description and priced accordingly or it is quite simply dishonest and a clear misrepresentation in my opinion.

I have received well quartered stock from Steve at Colonial Tonewoods but then Steve never disappoints with quality or service on any order.

Cheers

Kim [/QUOTE]

Kim--The reason that "1/4 sawn hog is getting harder to source" is that it's very difficult getting the hog to hold still.

[QUOTE=npalen] [QUOTE=larkim] This has happened to me also and with the added shipping cost to AU quite often exceeding the cost of the product itself it truly is an infuriating discovery .

I do understand that 1/4 sawn hog is getting harder to source, but this is no excuse as the increase in pricing for this stock is already compensating for the supply issue. If a vendor is listing the product as 1/4 sawn, it should be very close to vertical, say within 10 to 15 degree, any more than that and the stock should be down graded in description and priced accordingly or it is quite simply dishonest and a clear misrepresentation in my opinion.

I have received well quartered stock from Steve at Colonial Tonewoods but then Steve never disappoints with quality or service on any order.

Cheers

Kim [/QUOTE]

Kim--The reason that "1/4 sawn hog is getting harder to source" is that it's very difficult getting the hog to hold still. [/QUOTE]

Yeah, especially whilst your try'in to splash source on the slippery sod.

Cheers

Kim