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Zoot - Victorian Blackwood http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=11860	Page 1 of 2

Author:	bob_connor [ Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:09 pm ]
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Dave and I became the proud owners of this lot yesterday, all well quartered and a mixture of AA and AAA. It should keep us busy for a few years - once it dries. It's been cut about 4 months so I'm wondering whether it's better to seal it and leave it as is, to dry for a few years or cut it into thinner planks, seal and rack. I'm hoping that one of our learned Zootmen will be able to give us some advice. The billets are around 3-4" thick but one of the side billets is around 6" x 6". The shed sure smells good. And no. I haven't rolled in it.(yet) Cheers

Author:	Kim [ Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:05 pm ]
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Bob, You should give Tim a ring, he's back from Tassi and has more experience with resaw and storage of Aussie Blackwood for guitar use than just about anyone, best of all he is very helpful with the knowledge. One thing I would NOT wait to do is sealing the end grain, either hot wax dip or PVC pipe glue is good, in a pinch you can rub a good bit of PVA glue into the ends or even acrylic paint but get something on there ASAP as it can all go south real quick, 4 month is not long off the saw. Cheers Kim

Author:	Kim [ Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:15 pm ]
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Oh, forgot to mention, nice score Bob, As you no doubt already appreciate, Aussie Blackwood is some of the greatest tonewood of them all and I am certain that you and Dave will make a good number of spectacular guitars from that lot. cheers Kim

Author:	KiwiCraig [ Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:33 pm ]
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CRIKEY ! Bob . ,,,, So, O.K. ,I'm green with envy. That's an incredible pile of beautiful wood guys.. You're both made in the shade . Look out Maton and Cole Clarke ! Must feel like all your birthdays have come at once ! Actually , I hope it all splits on you , and you both get an extreme allergic reaction to it Great score guys . I'm really happy for ya both,,,,truly. Cheers Craig

Author:	bob_connor [ Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:46 pm ]
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It is Dave's birthday on Thursday Craig so it was very timely. We're both flat out trying to get the OM twins finished by the weekend as another present for the Mad Welshman. Only the headstock logo, wet & dry the tops and glue on the bridge to go so we should get there. Thanks for the tips Kim. I have a feeling that decent blackwood may be difficult to source in the not too distant future so we'd like to put a bit away for a rainy day. (and we haven't had too many of them lately) Cheers

Author:	Bobc [ Tue May 01, 2007 1:13 am ]
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Bob very nice Blackwood. If it were mine I would seal the ends and cut it into sets and sticker it. It will dry much faster. Tim may have a different approach.

Author:	Hank Mauel [ Tue May 01, 2007 3:35 am ]
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I'd seal it NOW and put most of it away in billet form to cure. Figure a year per inch of thickness for air drying. Cutting it now could lead to the sets becoming "potato chips" as the stresses in the wood will want to work out...even if stickered. Been there, done that with some walnut that was "supposedly" about 4 years from cutting. It had been sealed and air dried, but as soon as I cut into it to make sets it started to curl. Your stuff is too nice to chance it. Maybe try cutting the "driest" billet and see what happens, but I would store away as much as possible just for safety sake.

Author:	Bobc [ Tue May 01, 2007 3:43 am ]
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Hank was the walnut wet or kiln dried? I have been cutting wet wood into sets for 3-4 years now and sticker with weights. They dry perfectly flat. The first 10 days to 2 weeks I keep it covered loosely with clear plastic. When the droplets on the plastic start to subside I uncover and put a fan on low to circulate air. Usually down to 8-10% MC within 4-6 weeks.

Author:	Hank Mauel [ Tue May 01, 2007 3:58 am ]
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Bobc... The walnut was about 3" thick and had been air drying for 4 years. There was a bit of moisture in the very center, but certainly not what a fresh cut billet would contain. There was a good amount of figure in the piece, but others cut later from the same log came out fine. Go figure! By the way, the piece started to curl before I had even finished the first slice on the resaw. Should have figured something was up, but then I always was a slow learner! Anyway, since there seems to be a large supply in Bob's shop, I (personally) would try to age as much as possible before I cut it into sets. But that's just my approach...as always YMMV.

Author:	bob_connor [ Tue May 01, 2007 8:30 am ]
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Thanks Hank and Bob. I did get a phone call from Tim last night who suggested sealing the ends and putting it away for at least a year before doing anything else with it. I may try resawing one of the smaller billets to see what happens. This wood is all from the same tree. Cheers

Author:	Hank Mauel [ Tue May 01, 2007 10:56 am ]
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[QUOTE=bob_connor] Thanks Hank and Bob. I did get a phone call from Tim last night who suggested sealing the ends and putting it away for at least a year before doing anything else with it. I may try resawing one of the smaller billets to see what happens. This wood is all from the same tree. Cheers[/QUOTE] Good choice! Jog our memories in a year or two and let us know how the wood turned out!

Author:	Shane Neifer [ Tue May 01, 2007 12:23 pm ]
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Bob, I cut up a bunch of Blackwood that Tim sent over last summer and this is my experience. If the wood has wild grain (as apposed to just flame) then leave it alone for a couple of years. If the grain is quite uniform but just exhibits good flame, you can cut it now and sticker it and it will dry faster with less risk of waste. The deciding factor is how wild the grain is, adding stresses to the wood. I agree with Bob, the sooner you cut it the more quickly it becomes stable so you run less risk of loss to checking and other issues but if the grain is wild it won't dry well and likely won't even cut well without a good agressive band on a big saw! Good Luck Shane

Author:	Larry Davis [ Wed May 02, 2007 12:26 am ]
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Hi Shane!! Was the "wild grain" the buttress (or stump wood in the USA) wood with compression figures? If so, no amount of time will remove compression stress as it's crushed into the fiber growth pattern.

Author:	bob_connor [ Wed May 02, 2007 12:47 am ]
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Thanks for that Shane. Most of it is straight grained with varying amounts of flame in it. The billet in the second photo is probably the wildest grain of the the lot. I'm not sure how your 'wild' scale is calibrated so what do you reckon we should do with that piece. It's also the nicest piece so we really don't want to spoil it. Cheers

Author:	bob_connor [ Sun May 06, 2007 11:12 pm ]
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Yes. They are wigs. And no we're not hippies.

Author:	CarltonM [ Mon May 07, 2007 5:13 am ]
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You are tree-huggers, though! I'm wondering how far back into the closet you had to go to find those clothes? Perhaps not as far as you'd like us to believe?

Author:	Shane Neifer [ Mon May 07, 2007 7:12 am ]
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Hey Bob, I think that stuff would be fine to saw, sticker and weight. As Larry eluded, it was the buttress sets that caused issues. These were stumpwood billets with grain going in every direction! Beautiful to look at but I think that the wood needs to nice and dry, right through, before sawing, either that or saw thick, sticker often and park a truck on it! But again, your sets look like nice "typical" but very nice flame billets and my experience is that they saw nicely and stay fairly flat through the drying process, just sticker them and add some weight. Good luck! Shane

Author:	bob_connor [ Mon May 07, 2007 8:56 am ]
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Thanks Shane We were talking to our supplier (who also cuts it) and he basically re-iterated all that you have said. He's a dab hand with a chainsaw this bloke. Those billets were cut in the field and there's no more than 5mm variation in any of them. Cheers

Author:	Shane Neifer [ Mon May 07, 2007 9:32 am ]
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Cool! Those guys in the bush are quite amazing with what they can do with a saw. I have dropped a couple of my trees, the big ones, but now ALWAYS use a certified faller, they are amazing what they can do with a saw. I usually just get the thing stuck! Lookin' forward to some pics of the builds with those sets down the road! Shane

Author:	Larry Davis [ Mon May 07, 2007 9:54 am ]
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Bob, Shane's experience is priceless and I, too think all the wood in the photos is well selected and cut. You shouldn't have any abnormal problems cutting and drying that nice stock. I think it's the first wood photo on this forum to give me wood envy, actually!! I've heard rumors that Victorian blackwood can be higher quality (grain, fiber and stability, not aesthetics) than Tasmanian...any truth to that as a norm or same-same stuff?

Author:	John K [ Mon May 07, 2007 10:23 am ]
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Bob My recommendation is to slice up a few sets of that very curly stuff and then sell one of them to me! I want some John

Author:	Aust Tonewoods [ Mon May 07, 2007 10:29 am ]
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Well Larry I have to throw in my ten cents worth here. Acacia Melanoxylon has such a wide variety of density, colour and figure that it would be best to appraise each tree/log on its individual merits. Forrest logs are known to be taller and paddock blackwood is more sprawling due to less competition from other trees. Alot of the paddock blackwood logs have a higher incidence of figure and richer colour. The down side is resawing into suitable flitches. Some harder denser logs seem to have come from a higher altitude whereas the cardboard like blackwood have been found in swampy areas although this is not always true. regards Tim Australian Tonewoods

Author:	Larry Davis [ Tue May 08, 2007 4:49 am ]
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Thanks Tim!!! That is very helpful information when it comes time to purchase blackwood.

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