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Banjo - HEP!
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=11967		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  KenH [ Thu May 10, 2007 1:08 pm ]
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I got a call from an old friend in Indiana tonight that wants me to put together a price for building him a banjo. He wants an upper end build... not a cheap banjo, but not the most expensive out there either. I am thinking of something along the lines of quality of a Gibson Mastertone or lower end Stelling with a good tone ring.


I can price out all of the hardware and come up with a "kit" for this, or buy a kit outright. I'm out in left field here and have no clue where to get started on this.


Any suggestions?
Author:  David Collins [ Thu May 10, 2007 1:55 pm ]
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First Quality is hard to beat in terms of quality for banjo parts. Not the
cheapest, but excellent parts and service.
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Thu May 10, 2007 2:06 pm ]
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i have worked on a lot of jo's but i would never accept a commission to build one. for starters i do not have a lathe to turn the rim, and i've never carved a 'jo neck.

of course you can buy in all the components, neck, rim, ring, resonator, etc. but is assembling a box of parts building a custom instrument?

would you be happy if you found that your "custom" guitar was a s-m seviced kit?

just a thought....
Author:  old man [ Thu May 10, 2007 2:22 pm ]
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Go for it, Ken. I plan to start one after a couple more geetars. I have a lathe and am considering turning the rim, but I also thought about this: How about making a template of the rim (like you make one for a guitar mold) and build the rim is layers using a pattern bit to fit each layer, inside and out to the template, just like building a mold. You could also route the ledge around the rim for fitting the tone ring.   I'm going to try this method, probably before I try turning one, as I'm not real good on my lathe. I've also thought about turning my resonator out of one piece instead of laminating it. Not sure it would be strong enough, but I have a really nice piece of 15" diameter curly maple to try it on.

Ron
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Thu May 10, 2007 9:38 pm ]
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I have never built a banjo, so if I was approached by someone who wanted an "upper end build" I would most certainly decline. How can you expect to build something that good on your first try, especially since you "have no clue how to get started" as you say?

Author:  Pwoolson [ Thu May 10, 2007 11:39 pm ]
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I'm not sure why I even opened this thread as I'm clueless about banjos. But a thought came to my head (I know, scary!) Why wouldn't one bend and laminate the rim vs turn it? I would think a turned rim would have inhearent week spots due to the way the grain runs. If you bent a rim, you could control the grain direction. And if you stagger the joints, it would be bombproof. Which is a good thing because many folks simply want to blow up every banjo on the planet.
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Thu May 10, 2007 11:43 pm ]
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the better rims are laminated, then turned to fit the metal parts.
Author:  Cecil [ Thu May 10, 2007 11:59 pm ]
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Go for it Ken. You will find that the skills that serve to make a good guitar will serve to make a good Banjo.

I am currently in the same situation, a frind wants a cuastom banjo for his son. The only part that I am set up to build is the neck.

I did build a rim but the fit of the tone ring must be to within a few thousanths. I ended up ordering it also because a router did not yield the fit required.

As for the custom issue, he will be able to select his components to yield just the sound he wants

I will second David's recommendation of First Quality Music. The service and selection are great.

Cecil
Author:  Mike Mahar [ Fri May 11, 2007 1:12 am ]
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There are two approaches to making a banjo rim. One, is to make a multi segment ring like an 8 or 16 sided picture frame and then turn it on the lathe. The other is to laminate thin strips of maple or other wood into a ring. Both work find and have their supporters. There is a book on building a Mastertone style banjo that I have not read but should get you started.

From your description, it sounds like you want to make a resonator bluegrass style banjo. This makes a bunch of little decisions for you. You won't have to decide on the tone ring, number of rim clamps or tail piece. Those will be pretty much standard. If you were doing an open back, however, you would have to talk to your customer and find out what style of banjo they like. The number of options is very large.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Fri May 11, 2007 1:15 am ]
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[QUOTE=Hesh1956]I'm not saying anything...... [/QUOTE]

WHAT did you SAY?
Author:  John Cavanaugh [ Fri May 11, 2007 3:05 am ]
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Irving Sloane's book, Making Musical Instruments, has instructions for making a banjo. He describes a method for making a laminated rim. I used it to make some rings that I was going to use in a drum (never finished it) and it made nice strong circular rings. Mine came out within 1/32 inch of round on the first try.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Fri May 11, 2007 3:24 am ]
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If you have the correct hardware, couldn't you just make a mold (Like a guitar mold, except round) and laminate your ring to the exact dimensions of the  hardware.  I assume it is like a drum, and you stretch the skin over the wood ring, no?  I realize that it involves an outer ring at the top that is wider than the body ring, but, couldn't that be built into the mold, i.e., cut MDF the size of the larger ring and glue up to MDF cut the size of the smaller ring, Laminate outer ring in to smaller, then continue laminations with wider strips. that fit the bottom portion of the mold. There must be some reason why this won't work, since I'm only guessing here.
Author:  KenH [ Fri May 11, 2007 3:44 am ]
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I didnt discuss the kits with the customer and I dont think he has any idea that they exist. This particular customer is just wanting a good sounding banjo that is customized with inlays that only he will have.


I'm sure all of you have run across people that have money that they want to spend on guitars and they dont even know how to play one? I think this is the case with this guy. From what I gathered out of the conversation, he just wants something to pass along to his heirs that is unique. Because of this, he wants one in what I call the upper class of banjo that is complete with a brass or bronze tone ring and a good resonator. Think of this as an investment rather than something that he will play every day.


I like a good challenge. I just thought that some of you would have some good suggestions on where to start looking for plans or kits or other ideas on where to start with this project.
Author:  old man [ Fri May 11, 2007 4:03 am ]
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[QUOTE=crazymanmichael] the better rims are laminated, then turned to fit the metal parts.[/QUOTE]


Not necessarily. Right now the hottest rims on the market are segmented and turned from ancient wood. Several of the top banjo's (Including Stelling) use segmented/turned rims. The Gibson's (I have a mastertone) do use laminated maple, and that is (or has been) the traditional method. A segment rim is made and laid up in several rings, with the joints overlapping (like laying bricks) so they are extremely strong. Either method is great for high end banjos.   

Ron
Author:  Louis Freilicher [ Fri May 11, 2007 4:05 am ]
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I would have FQMS supply the pot and tonering and have them fit the ring for you. I believe that is how Gibson does it these days.

If you have built a guitar neck your 99% of the way to making a banjo neck. I would find a nice neck to make your templates from. Fitting the neck to the pot will be a pain, but if you order a blank from FQMS they can cut this joint for you as well.

I build a lot of necks for old time banjos, mostly reproduction Vega stuff so if you need any help drop me a line.

Louis
Author:  old man [ Fri May 11, 2007 4:10 am ]
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Ken, Stew-Mac has the mastertone plans and they are excellent. Also, the book by Siminoff is very good and I think StewMac has it too. Not the one on setting up the banjo, the one on building a banjo.

Ron
Author:  old man [ Fri May 11, 2007 4:12 am ]
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[QUOTE=Pwoolson] I'm not sure why I even opened this thread as I'm clueless about banjos. But a thought came to my head (I know, scary!) Why wouldn't one bend and laminate the rim vs turn it? I would think a turned rim would have inhearent week spots due to the way the grain runs. If you bent a rim, you could control the grain direction. And if you stagger the joints, it would be bombproof. Which is a good thing because many folks simply want to blow up every banjo on the planet. [/QUOTE]


Even if you laminate the rim, it must be turned to true it up and to cut the recess for the tone ring.

Ron
Author:  old man [ Fri May 11, 2007 4:21 am ]
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[QUOTE=Mike Mahar]

From your description, it sounds like you want to make a resonator bluegrass style banjo. This makes a bunch of little decisions for you. You won't have to decide on the tone ring, number of rim clamps or tail piece. Those will be pretty much standard.
[/QUOTE]


Some hardware is standard, though there are several levels of quality available. You must decide on a tone ring. The tone ring is about 80%+ of the sound quality and there are 12 or 15 different rings available for a high end banjo. The choice is only narrowed down if you have selected one particular sound you are shooting for. Pre-war Gibson, for example, usually taken as the standard, still has 4 or 5 tone rings that are similar bur not the same sound. Different tone rings need to be used to get a Stelling sound, etc. Of course, you can use any parts you want and get your own sound.

Ron
Author:  Dave Rickard [ Fri May 11, 2007 5:43 am ]
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Ron's the man when it comes to Banjo's..Around here anyway
Author:  Cecil [ Fri May 11, 2007 7:34 am ]
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Ken,

I have Roger Siminoff's books on construction and setup. They contain a wealth of information and will get you through the project in fine style.

Order them through your local book store or LMI, Stew Mac or FQM. I ordered mine locally and saved the shipping and handeling cost.

A banjo is a whole different animal than a guitar. You'll learn a lot and enjoy every minute of it.

Cecil
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Fri May 11, 2007 8:06 am ]
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If you have never used them before, check out www.abebooks.com and www.alibris.com - both of these are sites devoted to used and new book sales.  I got the Cumpiano book for about $15.00 plus shipping and the Bogdanovich book for about $16 - 17.00 plus shipping.  The cumpiano book was used, but you wouldn't know it.  My wife is into history and genealogy, so I'm always looking for old books for her research.  These two sources are great for out of print books.
Author:  KenH [ Fri May 11, 2007 9:53 am ]
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Great info!! Thanks for all the help!


What is FQM though? Never heard of it....
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Fri May 11, 2007 11:28 am ]
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first quality music --- a really good house!!!
Author:  old man [ Fri May 11, 2007 2:04 pm ]
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[QUOTE=Hodges_Guitars]

Great info!! Thanks for all the help!


What is FQM though? Never heard of it....

[/QUOTE]


Yep, First Quality Music is a great source.


FQM


Ron
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