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Poached Lumber Article
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Author:  Pete Harrington [ Thu May 17, 2007 3:06 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi,

Came across this article in todays Seattle Times newspaper. I didn't realize that there was such high demand for domestic instrument wood.



poached wood article


Pete
Author:  charliewood [ Thu May 17, 2007 3:41 am ]
Post subject: 
""There's usually some connection to illegal drugs, whether it's a small baggie of methamphetamine found in a suspect's pocket or, in one case, a makeshift meth lab in the back of a pickup.""


I REALLY find that hard to believe!!! - they always have to tie simple theft to the sinister druggies..
somehow
I really doubt that strung out drug addicts would have thier "stuff" together enough to have
A)felling gear and
B)a vehicle HD enough to haul wood
C) money for fuel and chainsaw bar oil etc
D)and then have themselves together enough to retail it..Coooome off It!
Nooo It couldnt be ex forest workers, who
A)know exactly what this stuff is worth and
B) where it is,
could it!?
Seriously though it was just a matter of time as these sets are really fetching alot of artificially generated prices these days. Theres a billion burly maples in the PNW, It had to find a maple that doesnt have figure in the tree somewheres up here!
Its sad that they are poaching whoever they are - they should just go to the cutblocks and slashpiles!!! - the forest companies leave literally tens of millions of dollars worth of this figured stuff to rot or be chopped up for firewood!
Cheers
Charliewood

a makeshift lab in the back of the pickup....
Author:  tony [ Thu May 17, 2007 3:42 am ]
Post subject: 
Interesting read. Never realized that the market would be that big to demand that much from one area. I wonder if other harvestable areas are suffering from the same fate.
Author:  Shane Neifer [ Thu May 17, 2007 3:46 am ]
Post subject: 
Good interesting article Pete. Maple is especially bad for that mostly because there is no 'industrial' harvest that makes accessing logs easier. Forestry departments don't really have a vehicle to allow small harvest levels to small operators of none 'commercial' tree species, so the system really is set up to promote poaching. In BC I often see nice trees piled up in burning piles from land clearing or logging just because the effort to get the wood to those who can use it is so tied up in bureaucracy that it is often not worth the effort, easier just to burn. Something is not right in all of this. Still, there are means to do it legally though, both on your side and our side of the border, they are just difficult to find and time consuming to maintain.

Thanks

Shane
Author:  charliewood [ Thu May 17, 2007 4:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Shane
You obviously know whats going on... I only wish that some of what you said was mentioned, however it NEVER is sadly.
I would see the firewood guys coming back from cutblocks with loads of figured maple for sale for firewood sometimes .. I would just cringe,,,

Cheers
Charliewood
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Thu May 17, 2007 4:41 am ]
Post subject: 
There's a lot that is confused in that article, and I am doubtful that the auther knew much about his subject. It starts by saying that a tree was felled in order to take some shoebox sized chunks from its base for guitar making. That's ridiculous for multiple reasons. First, you don't build guitars from small chunks of burl, or get enough value in those chunks to make it worth the work of felling a big tree even if they were to be used for electric droptops. Second, it is easy enough to saw off usable pieces of burl that size without felling the tree at all. I've bought burl in the PNW that was cut that way (with permits, by a forester who worked for a timber company). The guy cut without felling any trees, and he made a little money on the side for a lot of work.


Even if they are talking about curly maple trees suitable for guitar making, the idea that there are fast riches to be found in felling trees surreptitously, bringing in the log moving equipment needed to load logs weighing several tons onto trucks, transporting it to your clandestine saw mill, quartersawing for instrument grade sets, and marketing them at retail or wholesale is pretty far fetched. If a tree suitable for guitarmaking grew on your land, so that you could harvest it legally without paying for the tree, it's still unlikely that you would make much money after investing a huge amount of money and work in converting it to guitar sets, or felling it and selling it to a mill. So how does it become a fast buck black market item to poach maple trees? Makes no sense.
Author:  Shane Neifer [ Thu May 17, 2007 6:05 am ]
Post subject: 
Unfortunatley Howard, I suspect that most of it is poached. Like the article said, the guy at the mill isn't the guy the law is after, it is the harvester. So it is like, once the wood is at the mill you are home free! In the lower Mainland of BC (around Vancouver, I am too far north for decent maple trees) where there is quite a bit of maple processed into instrument woods (I know at least four companies doing this) I believe there are the following sources for the goods:

1) Aborists - those hired to remove nusiance trees. They are hassled by the forestry department if they do something other than 'dispose' of the log by grinding it up. Forestry wants them to get permits to transport and pay fees if they want to process the log for another use.

2) Land Clearing of Private Land - When some developers see the value or just generally don't want to be entirely wasteful, they will make these trees available. Usually on a 'who do you know basis'.

3) Commercial logging - These trees will be incidental to harvest typically for Douglas Fir. Some companies will make these trees available again usually to someone that they have a relationship with.

4) Poaching! - Cut either under the guise as a firewood operation (which still requires a permit but is ofetn not enforced) or just harvested for the figured wood market, which includes turners and instrument makers mostly. These guys will havest just like firewood, no heavy equipment required. They have the sizes and know where they will be taking the wood so the time from cutting to landing at the mill is typically done in the same day. If they are caught they just claim they were harvesting firewood and bow and apologise...

If the system allowed legal access for small volume, grade specific harvest I think that poaching would all but disappear as then the harvesters would have a stake in the stewardship of the resource. But until then, especially with maple anyways, I think that it would be hard to really say where your wood came from and whether it was legally harvested. I asked my maple supplier, a great guy, where he got his wood from and he is pretty vague about it. I know that they harvest legally but they also get 'other' maple.

Shane
Author:  spruce [ Thu May 17, 2007 6:40 am ]
Post subject: 
"I REALLY find that hard to believe!!! - they always have to tie simple
theft
to the sinister druggies.. "

Believe it....

"I wonder if other harvestable areas are suffering from the same fate."

Yep....
Bosnia to Thailand to my favorite Engelmann stands who's location will
remain nameless....

"There's a lot that is confused in that article, and I am doubtful that the
auther knew much about his subject."

I was interviewed for this article, and I'm kinda glad I wasn't quoted...
Ever had an article written about you? Was it accurate? I didn't think
so....   


"Even if they are talking about curly maple trees suitable for guitar
making, the idea that there are fast riches to be found in felling trees
surreptitously, bringing in the log moving equipment needed to load logs
weighing several tons onto trucks, transporting it to your clandestine saw
mill, quartersawing for instrument grade sets, and marketing them at
retail or wholesale is pretty far fetched."

Not at all....
It's happening all the time.
Usually the milling into blocks is done on-site, however. No need for any
equipment other than a good chainsaw and a pcikup truck...

"So how does it become a fast buck black market item to poach maple
trees? Makes no sense."

Well, with chunks of wood like this going for
600 bucks (I'm not saying this particular piece is poached), there's a
lot of incentive to grab a tree on Granny's back 40...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=002&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%
3AIT&viewitem=&item=120108478034&rd=1&rd=1

Author:  charliewood [ Fri May 18, 2007 3:15 am ]
Post subject: 
spruce
wow the drug addicts you have down there in Washington and Oregon are certainly more industrious than they are up here in Canada!
Up here they simply smash out windows in your store/home/vehicle to steal it or anything of value/
or punch out granny or gramps for thier old age security..
but scouting for lumber(having all necessary equip}
chainsawing up trees,
loading onto thier trucks
and then having it milled
and then cut into useable guitar dimension lumber,
and then stickering and aging or kiln drying it,
and then marketing it somehow...
this Id like to see,,... they might as well just get a job at that rate.

Spruce, now Im not saying its not true, you obviously have some sort of first hand information,
but from the scumbags Ive met/seen/heard about over my lifetime, who have a taste for the deadly white powders..
well, lets just say that would just.. smack of effort, a little too much for them!
Its more likely an ex forest worker with a drug habit than a drug addict who spied this as a prime opportunity to make his meth bank, and then schemed it all out....
I would think. MHO
I mean there are lots of little forest towns with rampant drug problems - so Im sure this {poaching} prolly is happening in some places.
But lets face it it wouldnt be the first time the police had a mistaken take/impression on something.
Cheers
Charliewood
Author:  fryovanni [ Fri May 18, 2007 4:12 am ]
Post subject: 
It is hard to say who and for what purpose exactly. I agree whole heartedly with the comments regarding falling and trying to process the wood to instrument grade material. That is a lot of work, space, time, equipment to get the few billets that would be "instrument grade", and the billets would vary in value with the possibility of maybe a couple really nice bits. Now if it was being done illegally, I doubt a person would risk hauling their portable mill to the forest. Setting up shop, falling the tree, and slabbing premium cuts. Then hauling it off storing it(assuming air dry). It is possible they fell the tree loaded the log on a trailer and hauled it to a local mill, and had them mill slab it for 30 cents a board foot. Then our drug addicts are investing(not seeming likely). Shoot either way they hauled in equipment and hauled the wood out. That was a risky move as it would be obvious to any authority that saw them as to what they just did. Just seems like a tuff way to try to make buck, lots of work and lots of risk for little return.

Peace,Rich
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