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Is this the best sounding guitar?
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=12196		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Colin S [ Sat May 26, 2007 9:05 am ]
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I've been sorting out a lot of sound files on my computer as I'm soon buying a new one. Well I was listening to a load of tracks including some of the best guitars ever made (mine ), but one track kept coming back to haunt me I had to play it over and over again. And yes I do believe it's the best sounding steel string guitar I've ever heard.

The guitar was made by one of our own. Step forward and take a bow JOHN HOW. His ladder braced guitar played by Bill Shepherd is about as perfect a sound as it's possible to make with a steel string guitar. For those of you who missed it or who need reminding it's here.
   John How's ladder braced guitar

If I'd made one that good, well I'd probably never make another guitar and I'd die a happy man.

Colin
Author:  Rod True [ Sat May 26, 2007 11:19 am ]
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No offense to John or you Colin, but that's not my favorite sound for a guitar. It sounds small and is to crisp for my tastes.

I guess that's why I like cedar topped guitars over any other top wood. Gives that mellow, soft wood sound that I really like the best.

That is a very nice sounding guitar, just not my style.

That's why there are so many guitar builders out there. Not all guitars can sound the same otherwise it would get rather boring.
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Sat May 26, 2007 3:23 pm ]
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Well, I'd be proud to have built that guitar! It does sound great.
Also, listening to that recording, I was happy to learn I'm not the only person that hits the top with his pick. I don't know if that's part of Big Bill's style, but if so I'm closer than I thought.

Congrats on that guitar, John!

Steve
Author:  Sam Price [ Sat May 26, 2007 6:10 pm ]
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It's amazing; I have heard at least five recordings of ladder braced guitars and can appreciate that vintage, crisp/nasal tone; isn't it fascinating the flavour of sounds that can be created by differing bracing patterns? Never ceases to amaze me.
Author:  James Orr [ Sun May 27, 2007 3:44 am ]
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My favorite recording of John's guitars is Michael Wong's Bach piece.

http://www.michaelawong.com/mpeg/How6.wmv
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sun May 27, 2007 3:45 am ]
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I don't know about "Best Sounding", but it sounds great.  Best is pretty subjective, and takes into account a lot of variables in taste.  Some like smooth, some like punch, some like clear, some like bassey, some like crisp.  How do you choose?  Also, it would depend hugely on who is doing the pickin.  I have seen some great players take a pretty cheap guitar and make it sound pretty good.  I have also seen some mediocre players take an expensive guitar and makie it sound pretty bad.  It also depends on whether the particular guitar is good for the players style.  That clip made is sound like a great fit and combination. Of course that is only My Opinion!
Author:  charliewood [ Sun May 27, 2007 4:42 am ]
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Ive heard that tone comes from the fingers, but thats a musicians axiom, and not a luthier saying no doubt!
Ive seen amazing guitarists make a crap guitar sound sweet also, so there is some truth to that, but we on this forum know there is definitely more to it, and that a guitar can be crafted that will sound good in the hands of someone totally inept at playing!
By virtue of its incredible tonewood selection and expert construction,
However, I am a HUGE fan of this style of guitar, and this guitar in particular...
perhaps its just my taste in styles, and my deep appreciation of the smaller body guitar...
I think as Waddy says, at best it is subjective - but there can be no doubt that guitar is an amazing piece of work...
I will be crafting at least one for myself down the road.
Cheers
Charliewood
Author:  Colin S [ Sun May 27, 2007 8:47 am ]
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It is a great guitar, and perfect for the style of music it's being used for.

The point I'm trying to make is that it is a great SOUNDING guitar. We see plenty of beautifully crafted guitars here on the forum, but any competant woodworker can do that. John has the rare ability, shared with few others to make a guitar that speaks to you.

This is a forum for musical instrument makers. The emphasis should be more on the musical. We all fawn over highly polished guitars, guitars with great figured wood, or intricate inlay. But how often do we actually hear them. I've never posted an instrument here without a sound clip or two to accompany it. If I was running the forum no finished instrument pictures would be allowed without a sound clip, even just a few chords.

Until they speak to us, no matter how beautiful they look, they are just overpriced kindling.

Colin
Author:  James Orr [ Sun May 27, 2007 8:58 am ]
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I can appreciate that, Colin. Last week I had to convince myself NOT to
order a high end mic preamp to get even more warmth from my high end
tube mic.   

I would love for everyone to post clips of their guitars. What I've learned
is that getting a clip that sounds like the guitar does naturally is very
difficult. If I'm any indication, everyone would have yet one more
obsession, haha.

Being able to hear these guitars people are making would be fantastic
though.
Author:  Rod True [ Sun May 27, 2007 10:09 am ]
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Sorry Colin, but the title of you post says "Is this the best sounding guitar?"

Again no offense to John, who does make a great sounding guitar, but for me, that guitar says nothing. I don't like how it sounds. That doesn't mean that it doesn't sound good, it means that I don't personally like that style or sound so in my opinion, it's not best sounding guitar. And I doubt that you will find consessus on any guitar, built by any builder, on any given day that any guitar is the best sounding guitar.

[quote=Colin S]Until they speak to us, no matter how beautiful they look, they are just overpriced kindling. [/quote]

That's just a bunch of crap Colin. I would state that there is not one sole purpose of a guitar. Yes it's primary function is to make music, but it does serve a secondary function as art work.

Take a look at Howard Klepper's guitars or Rick Turner's. Both of these guys can be classified as master craftsmen just from the looks of their guitars alone and I bet that there are folks who would purchase them for their artistic quality alone. Now the fact that they most likly sound increadible too is of course the reason for making them.

Your right Colin, any compitent wood worker can make a guitar and any guitar made from the majority of the plans floating around out there will most likly sound better than the majority of factory built guitars produced today. Heck I've had comments on all of my guitars that they sound as good as some high end custom guitars out there (from people who actually own these high end custom guitars too and they know what they like a guitar to sound like). None of my guitars to date are built with anything other than EIR and Cedar tops. Nothing special about them, no fancy inlay, heck none of them even have gloss finishes.

If your saying that people here who post pictures of their guitars shouldn't untill they've built something "worthy" to be called a guitar than I'd say you sould go soak you head. That's just a load of........

Over and Out.
Author:  Kim [ Sun May 27, 2007 10:15 am ]
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On this note you could spend 100k building the room buying the mic, software and accessories in effort to do your instrument justice when recording your sound clip only to have someone sitting in their undies at the other end of the WWW listen to it on a $20 set of PC speakers

Cheers

Kim
Author:  James Orr [ Sun May 27, 2007 11:18 am ]
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It's all situation dependent for me. There are some sounds I really
appreciate, but take the guitars from any two of them, switch them, and I
don't think the guitars would sound good in the new situation.

For example. I really like the rosewood/spruce OM in the new Village
Sessions album on iTunes from John Mayer. I really like the Avalon
rosewood/spruce Charlie Hall uses in his On the Road to Beautiful album
(you can hear it on iTunes). Switch guitars and I don't think they'll work
well. And that's within a similar genre.

I think Colin was just trying to appreciate John's guitars though. I don't
quite read him saying some guitars aren't worthy to be called guitars,
either. It seems like he's just interesting in refocusing the continuum
towards the musical applications and less extreme on the craftsmanship.
Author:  Dave Anderson [ Sun May 27, 2007 11:40 am ]
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I think the How guitar sounds good for the music style being played. But I like a little mellower sound myself, not quite so bright. It definatly is a sweet little guitar and it would be fun to play! And it looks very cool too!
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Sun May 27, 2007 12:06 pm ]
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I've played and heard several of John's guitars. All are special as are John's skills at carpentry, setup and voicing. While I never played his latest masterpieces, I love the sound and I also love the style of music that they are intended to represent.

I certainly would be hard-pressed to say that any individual guitar is "the best sounding guitar" but John's surely is up there with the best.

As far as posting clips, I'd be interested in getting specifics as to what equipment, software, etc. is required. I hesitate to insist that it should be a requirement but I also would like to hear more as well as record my own for critiques by those with gifted ears.
Author:  old man [ Sun May 27, 2007 2:14 pm ]
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Colin, I don't know if you literally mean the best,(though there seems to be some here who assume so) but that is one sweet sound to me. I love it and the playing.


Sounds clips are not possible for me at this time, though. I don't have any way of recording, I don't play well enough, and being on dial-up, I don't have the time.

Ron
Author:  Ken Franklin [ Sun May 27, 2007 6:06 pm ]
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John does a great job with that ladder-braced style. The clip is perfect for that type of music. What some people haven't mentioned is that the guitar has a wonderful bass end to go with those twinkling highs. It's a sound that just makes you feel good and that's the kind of guy John is too.
Author:  Colin S [ Sun May 27, 2007 6:48 pm ]
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Rod you seem to have missed the point. I did put a question mark at the end of the title. I wasn't stating it as fact, though to me it's a superb instrument, but as James realised I'm just trying to highlight the fact that we are trying to build musical instruments.

But I guess someone had to miss the point and end up getting offensive, this time it was you. No, I didn't say that you should only post when they have built something "worthy", just that when they have built something just put a sound clip with it, even just a few simple chords to validate it's existence as a musical instrument.

I don't intend to "go soak your head", whatever that means, but I will be complaining to the moderators about your offensive remark.

Colin
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Sun May 27, 2007 7:07 pm ]
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I've never managed to get a recording of my acoustic that I think captures its sound well, but then, I'm still waiting to get the recording corner set up so I can do better than direct in the undersaddle quackinator (it's a good pickup, great for a live setting, but it's not what the instrument sounds like).

Besides, I'm not any good as a player ;)
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Mon May 28, 2007 12:10 am ]
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Good points, Hesh! Visiting OLFers are my favotite road trips! Playing their guitars are some of my greatest learning experiences. Our weekend at Zootman's last summer was one of my best learning experiences as was the recent trip to the "rack of guitars" in Ann Arbor.

I've used the Audacity software and like it but the mic I have is poor at best. Thanks for the tip on the mic you have.

Hopefully, some who have more experience with recording can chime in here.
Author:  Dave White [ Mon May 28, 2007 12:55 am ]
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[QUOTE=JJ Donohue]
I've used the Audacity software and like it but the mic I have is poor at best. Thanks for the tip on the mic you have.

Hopefully, some who have more experience with recording can chime in here.[/QUOTE]

JJ,

Personally I think a good condensor mic is the best for getting the best recording sound of an acoustic guitar. Ideally use 2 - one pointing at just above or below the soundhole and the other at the 12th fret on the fretboard. I use an AKG C1000S microphone.

These go straightinto a Fostex FD4 that I bought years ago. This lets me record and mix multiple tracks and add effects/eq etc. When happy it is mixed down to CD on a CD writer attached to the Fostex. I then load it onto my PC and convert to mp3 format for recordings I want accessible on the internet.

Nowadays there is lots of computer software that you can use and when the Fostex breaks down on me I will probably go down this route. You will need a good sound card in your PC though.

If you don't want to get heavily into recording you can get some cheap mp3 recorders that you can record directly into fairly easily that give reasonable sound quality.
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Mon May 28, 2007 1:10 am ]
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Thanks, Dave...great info.
Author:  John How [ Mon May 28, 2007 2:31 am ]
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Hey everybody, what's all the fuss!!!
I think maybe Colin is just trying to bring to attention the real reason we make guitars and that is to make music. I used to be a much better player than I am today so I try to record others playing my instruments whenever possible. I was fortunate in this case to send this guitar out on a roadtrip to several very good players that were agreeable to make some recordings with it. This is a good way to demo guitars but definately has a risk factor to it. My guitar has been traveling around the US since last October and is nearing home now only to be cleaned up tweaked and sent right back out to a couple of guitar camps this summer. (John How's marketing tip for the day).
As for recording, there are lots of ways as somebody said earlier there is the software "Audacity " that I think may be available packaged with some hardware or possibly as shareware. There are some very nice small standalone recording tools. The Zoom H4 has been getting some good press lately at about $299 (street price) and there are many others including some of the USB mics discussed earlier.
So just have fun, play your guitar and share your music.
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