Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi all,

I have started my first finishing run on my first build which is a SM 000 kit (sitka/Mahog with BRW bindings and end gaff)

I have preped the wood by danding to 400 grit (wetting the wood to raise the grain) several times and each time vacuuming the dust and cleaning up using Meths (no DNA in the UK )

I have just applyed my first z-poxy layer using a credit card and rubber gloves. For the neck i followed Hesh and rubbed the z-poxy in really good with my fingers through the rubber gloves.

I have then knocked the z-poxy back using 0000 steel wool.

I plan to either:
1    Add one more similar layer of z-poxy, knock back with steel wool and then apply a 50/50 poxy/Meths mix with some kitchen towel (Dave White?)

or

2    Go straigh to the 50/50 mix

After this I will then add several layers of Liberon pure Tung oil (How many?)


Please have a look and I would welcome any comments on my current madness (approach)

Thanks.

Barry

Ps What do apply the 50/50 poxy/Meths mix with?
PPs I made the error of doing all this with the guitar sat on a towel on the kitchen table. DONT DO THIS I ended up with loads of towel fibres in the stick poxy on the guitar

Barry,

The photos look good - is that with the Z-poxy on?

You need to make sure that the each Z-poxy coat you put on is well cured before doing anything else - I allow at least 24 hours. The sanding is complete when the Z poxy is flat and level - or if you are going back to the wood, if the Z-poxy is in all the pores and level with the wood surface. I use a combination of 320 & 400 grit sandpaper with appropriate sanding blocks and 0000 wire wool. If you use the wire wool you have to make sure that ALL wire fibres are cleaned off before any other finish goes on.

If you are not sanding back to the wood then check very carefully that the surface is flat and level with no ridges - both by looking and feeling with your fingers. You only need to apply more Z-poxy if there are more pores to be filled. I do the 50/50 mix in a shallow plastic container (like you get taramasalata in) and use a pipette to add the meths.

Yes - the Z-poxy is sticky for a while and you have to develop "cunning plans" for how you do the back and sides without gumming up. Towels are not a good plan!

You are confusing me a little. I thought you were going to apply Liberon blonde shellac first and then Tru-oil. Tung oil doesn't dry as hard in my experience and is not what I would choose to use. I'd definitely try it out on scrap first. Danish oil may be a better option which is what Russell Rose used to use but he applied it over a shellac coat first.

The finishing process is just starting and can take as long as building the guitar. Hope you have a good swear box on hand

_________________
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

p.s I apply the 50/50 Z-poxy using a folded up piece of kitchen towel dabbed into the mix and rubbed onto the surface, small areas at a time and moving to a different area of the towel as the paper starts to disintegrate. Others have used lint-free cloths I think.

_________________
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Dave,
Thanks for the advice.

The pics are after the 1st z-poxy coat.
I knocked it back 24 hrs later with 0000 steel wool.
I have then vacuum cleaned the surface and re-cleaned using Meths.

Yes you are right. I will add a few coats of shellac and then Tung oil as I have bought it unless you feel stongly that i shouldnt. I dont mind buying some Danish oil. I have just found out that my local hardware shop sells a wealth of Liberon stuff plus lots of oils

so in summary;

Z-poxy
Sand
kitchen towel on 50/50 Z-poxy/Meths (how do you measure this out...i was thinking of hijacking some kitchen teaspoons?)
Sand
Shellac with kicthen towel
Sand
Oil using kitchen towel
Sand??

I am really after a nice 'cold' looking matt/satin finish. I dont like the high gloss stuff.

Barry

Dave,
Thanks for the advice.

The pics are after the 1st z-poxy coat.
I knocked it back 24 hrs later with 0000 steel wool.
I have then vacuum cleaned the surface and re-cleaned using Meths.

Yes you are right. I will add a few coats of shellac and then Tung oil as I have bought it unless you feel stongly that i shouldnt. I dont mind buying some Danish oil. I have just found out that my local hardware shop sells a wealth of Liberon stuff plus lots of oils

so in summary;

Z-poxy
Sand
kitchen towel on 50/50 Z-poxy/Meths (how do you measure this out...i was thinking of hijacking some kitchen teaspoons?)
Sand
Shellac with kicthen towel
Sand
Oil using kitchen towel
Sand??

I am really after a nice 'cold' looking matt/satin finish. I dont like the high gloss stuff.


Any brand of kitchen towel Dave?
My wife has just gone to Waitrose so I could ring her if i get her in time
Barry

Thanks Hesh
I am going to post some more pics of the wood close up so you guys can judge how the 1st z-poxy layer and sanding have gone.
I will use 400 / 800 grit from now on with a flexible pad backing it up., I just thought that 0000 wool was the way forward for some reason

Barry

Pic to follow

Barry,

I used Tung oil once on a guitar very early in my building career. I ended up taking it off and using Tru-oil instead. The Tung will penetrate more plus it smelt like a Chinese take-away when I played the guitar - that could be a plus or minus depending on your point of view

Here's pictures of a guitar Russel finished with Danish oil.

I apply wash coats of shellac with a kitchen towel and then build up some base coats with a municea using the FP technique described by the Milburn brothers. Then I apply a few Tru-oil coats with kitchen towel - no particulat brand, just plain and thickish paper. I use the Sainsbury's re-cycled stuff.

_________________
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Below (hopefully) are some close-up images of the back and neck following the 1st CC applyed coat of z-poxy. I am unsure about how much to sand. I see and have not seen any ridges and the surface to me feels great. I did not have to labour at all to sand with the 0000 wool so maybe i did not put a thick enough layer of z-poxy on???? Please have a look.













I must admit though i am really really ..................... really chuffed with this so far. Considering that it is my first attempt, I have no reall carpentary/woodworking skills (except those from UK schooling education) and I have no special jigs or equipment and it has been built in the kitchen of my 2 bedroom garden flat

I have placed it next to my Taylor Big Baby and already it kicks the donkeys out of it

Barry

dang nearly


Here is the neck

[QUOTE=Dave White] Barry,

I used Tung oil once on a guitar very early in my building career. I ended up taking it off and using Tru-oil instead. The Tung will penetrate more plus it smelt like a Chinese take-away when I played the guitar - that could be a plus or minus depending on your point of view

Here's pictures of a guitar Russel finished with Danish oil.

I apply wash coats of shellac with a kitchen towel and then build up some base coats with a municea using the FP technique described by the Milburn brothers. Then I apply a few Tru-oil coats with kitchen towel - no particulat brand, just plain and thickish paper. I use the Sainsbury's re-cycled stuff.[/QUOTE]


Hahahhahahah
It would be nice for 5 or ten miutes i guess and may even make me nip around the corner to get some Singapore fried rice . But then it would drive me mad.

I will either buy some True-Oil or some Danish Oil and use that. I will also follow the wash coats then a few base layers of shellac then Oil route too I think....It will be good practice if nothing else.

Kitchen towel reportedly is on its way.

Barry.

Thats easy.......that'll be the wife Hesh


What did you guys think of the pores on the pics above?

Are they filled ot should i paper towel on a 50/50 mix of poxy and meths?

Barry

Cheers Todd

I thought it might need more but as I have never seen anything like this before i wasnt sure
How do you mean a full-up coat?
Do you mean an undilluted coat?

Cheers guys
Ihave just done a 50/50 coat (mainly because i wanted to have a go at it...all experimental at this stage)

If need be i will do another 50/50 coat.

I will then do a few shellac coats and finish up with some danish oil.

Its looking ace. You are not suposed to say that about your work are you

........adn this is how it looks after the second z-poxy coat which was a 50/50 poxy/meths version.



Thanks all for your help and advice

Barry

Hahahaha
Thanks Todd

I sanded that second coat back with 800grit and then 1500grit sandpaper.

I have now just added a second diluted z-poxy coat to the back and sides.

The neck look good to go and so I have just added two coats of Liberon pale blonde.............Ohhhh the neck is looking good now IMHO

I will let the back and sides dry and sand back. If it looks ok (which i guess it sould after 1 x full coat and 2 x diluted coats of zpoxy) I will apply some (6?) coats of shellac. Probably 2 coast then sand, 2 coats then sand then 2 coats and sand. Maybe sand on coats 3 and 6 actually.

I think i might have a go at some FP after that on the back and sides.

At the end of it all I will finish with either Danish or True oil



Many thanks to all who helped me start this wonderful journey.

Barry

Barry,

That’s a fine looking finish you’ve done! And, I mean a real fine looking finish!

I’m big fan of True-Oil, but, I’m sure either will look great over what you’ve got!

BTW, can I have a banana?

Robert

_________________
Everything has beauty, But, not everyone see's it!

monkey want a nanner too!!

good work homie, looks beautiful - cant wait to hear it!

 

_________________
www.theguitarrepairworkshop.com

[QUOTE=curtis]

monkey want a nanner too!!

good work homie, looks beautiful - cant wait to hear it!

[/QUOTE]

Monkey bad, back in cage
Steve get your set-up tools out its nearly done
We need to buy some tuners and 'source' some pukka strings too.


Thanks Rob

Barry