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dirty nut and saddle
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=12224		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  snood [ Tue May 29, 2007 9:15 am ]
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After sanding the nut and sadle on my first build i notice that there are what looks like small peices of grit embedded in the bone.

Both pieces are very very smooth and shaped just how I want them.

Should I worry about the flecks or not?
If so how do i get rid?

Thanks,

Barry
Author:  Michael Lloyd [ Tue May 29, 2007 11:58 am ]
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If they're smooth to the touch and you like the shape I wouldn't worry. Natural bone can have colour imperfections that look like grit.
Author:  KenH [ Tue May 29, 2007 12:41 pm ]
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I'll second what Michael said. When you see discoloration in the nut and saddle, you KNOW it is bone and not plastic. A sign of a good build to me.
Author:  snood [ Wed May 30, 2007 6:19 am ]
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Thanks guys
Author:  Todd Rose [ Thu May 31, 2007 2:30 am ]
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I've had this problem and am still looking for a really good cure myself. I don't like the look of the dark "dirt" in the pores of the bone. Looks crappy to me, not "natural". I've had good luck getting almost all of it out with a toothbrush and water or alcohol. I've been thinking about trying to fill the pores before they get the grime in them, probably with CA. I'll have to experiment with this. I'm interested to hear if others have done this, or how they avoid or clean out the grime.

In my case, I'm using micro-mesh, and the dark abrasive from that seems to be what's getting in the pores of the bone. Maybe the only real solution is not to use micro-mesh, but in all other respects, I'm very happy with the ease and the results I get from using it.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu May 31, 2007 2:56 am ]
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Are you guys using bleached or un bleached bone. I normally use unbleach because I like the molted apperance. But even then I have not had what looks like dirt in the pores. I shape and sand with progressive gits from 150p to 320p then hit with the buffer for a fine sheen.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Thu May 31, 2007 10:17 pm ]
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I've been using a few different kinds of bone. The really mottled, yellowish unbleached bone I've used seems to be the most porous (I've often wondered why this is). But I've had the problem to some extent with almost every piece of bone I've used.

Michael, it sounds like you're avoiding the problem by not using micro-mesh, but, rather, using a buffer for fine polishing. I don't have a buffer (yet), so these probably sounds like dumb questions, but... you don't get compound in the pores? Do you go through progressively finer compounds, or just go straight to a very fine, very light colored compound that wouldn't show even if it did get in the pores?   
Author:  snood [ Thu May 31, 2007 11:46 pm ]
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I should have posted these which show what I mean.





Thanks again.
Author:  Kim [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:13 am ]
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I knew a cowboy with this problem. He cleaned his saddle, fixed the hole in his jeans and had no more problems

I'm so sorry, but I really just can't help myself

Cheers

Kim
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:19 am ]
Post subject: 
Well first off that nut appears to be much more porous than what I get typically. it would have been easier to tell the issue if I had seen the blank first. If indeed it is residual dirt the a bath in an ultrasonic bath like a denture cleaner should shake the dirt out.

Todd
I don't load the buffer I just use what ever residual compound is in the medium fine compound wheel.
I am sure there may be some compound in some pours but I can't tell if there is.

I bought a boat load of unbleached and some bleached blanks from StewMac several years ago and am still working from that stock. I can't say I had this issue if indeed it is dirt and not inherent discoloration of the bone.
Author:  Kim [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:47 am ]
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Ok, ok, I'll try acting my age rather than my shoe size.

When I tried using pitted grainy bone like that pictured above in an attempt to keep that antique look on an old plywood 3/4 F11 Maton, I found it was a little chalky and wore quite quickly, much more so than the smoother solid form. The stuff I had (home preped cow bone) was a little crumbly at the take off points as well but maybe I just got a hoofer with osteoporosis.

Also, I don't like bleached bone because to me, it just looks artificial and stark in contrast with the natural woods. I think a little oil left in the bone is a good thing, the more ivory colour looks good and I think the fat residue helps to reduce wear and probably also helps to ward off any chance of string bind as well.

Cheers

Kim
Author:  Colin S [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Those marks are where the blood vessels passed through the bone, that's the way to tell it's not ivory. Different samples, according to where in the bone it comes from, will display this to a greater or lesser extent.

I have to say I wouldn't be using that piece. I always use camel bone which is that bit harder and have never had the problem.

Colin
Author:  Todd Rose [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:13 am ]
Post subject: 
Barry, I've had some unbleached bone as porous as that, but that looks like bleached. Anyway, that is a lot like what the pores of my nuts and saddles look like when I get done polishing with micro-mesh: fabulous glossy sheen, but grimey looking pores. Are you using micro-mesh?

As I said before, IMO that dark "dirt" in the pores looks crappy, so I would certainly try to clean it out.

I like the denture cleaner idea. If that works easily enough, maybe I'll continue with my present method for the time being. Otherwise, I'm either going to try filling the pores with CA, or take this problem as a kick in the butt to get myself set up with a buffing station.

It also occurs to me now that maybe just wetting the work while polishing with micro-mesh might float away the grit and prevent the "dirty" pores. I've been doing it dry. So, there's another thing to try.

As an aside, I'm also wondering if it might be a good idea to fill the pores with CA in any case. It seems like it would prevent grime from getting in them in the future, keeping the nut looking good over time. It might even add a little extra structural solidity to the bone (albeit not affecting the pores in the interior of the material) for improved wear and maybe even slightly improved sound. OTOH, it may be an extra step with negligible benefit. Maybe a better idea is to return bone that's overly porous to the supplier and only use bone that's relatively solid.

I've made the subject line of this post more specific in hopes of attracting the attention of others who may have some additional helpful input.
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