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A French polish tutorial inquiry
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=12243		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed May 30, 2007 4:06 am ]
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OK guys and gals. There are several good FP tutorials out there but I get lots if inquires from members to give help with their first and second FP finishes. I have steered away from producing a tutorial because there are several out there.

Just for curiosity if I did a tutorial what do find lacking in the existing tutorials?

I am not promising I will but I have a French polished guitar coming up in Septembers schedule and would consider putting a photo tutorial together if there is enough interest.
Author:  burbank [ Wed May 30, 2007 4:25 am ]
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Personally, I'd love to see it, Michael. True, there are several out there, but since there are so many effective ways to do a FP with many variables, I'd sure like to see some of your methods. Thanks!
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Wed May 30, 2007 4:32 am ]
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Go for it, Michael!!!

Over the past 2 years in particular, I have read the Milburn tutorial as well as followed Robbie's DVD based on the Brune's method. I would characterize this as the spectrum from most difficult to easiest application techniques. I would put your technique somewhere in the middle.

Personally, I would love to see your step-by-step process in as much detail as you can stand to provide. Having such a tutorial on the forum with the opportunity to ask questions along the way would be a great learning experience for many. If possible...include some video clips.

For me, I want to thank you for your patient and generous instruction in the past and look forward to your more formal tutorial should you decide to produce one. Thanks, Michael!
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed May 30, 2007 4:48 am ]
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Maybe we could get Lance and Brock to open a separate forum page at that time that I can post to as I put this tutorial together. That way the members could ask questions about the current process as it is happening thereby affecting the the finished tutorial. I can tell you that there are a lot of things that are second nature to me and therefore might get passed over too quickly. By doing a daily posting and taking questions on the daily process, the inquisitive can as for further explanation prior to a final publication.
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Wed May 30, 2007 7:16 am ]
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Sounds good to me Michael. I'm sure L&B would have no objections. Would this still begin in September?
Author:  Bill Greene [ Wed May 30, 2007 7:36 am ]
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[QUOTE=MichaelP] Maybe we could get Lance and Brock to open a separate forum page at that time that I can post to as I put this tutorial together. That way the members could ask questions about the current process as it is happening thereby affecting the the finished tutorial. I can tell you that there are a lot of things that are second nature to me and therefore might get passed over too quickly. By doing a daily posting and taking questions on the daily process, the inquisitive can as for further explanation prior to a final publication. [/QUOTE]

Excellent idea, and I for one would love to see a tutorial on this. Thanks for considering it.

Bill
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed May 30, 2007 7:45 am ]
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[QUOTE=JJ Donohue] Sounds good to me Michael. I'm sure L&B would have no objections. Would this still begin in September?[/QUOTE]

Yep that is when the next FP finish I have booked would be ready to finish.
Author:  LaurieW [ Wed May 30, 2007 7:51 am ]
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I'd love to see a tutorial - I am looking for a new finish.  I don't have spray equipment, don't want the harsh chemicals, and wasn't that impressed with the oil finish.  I am down to KTM-9 and french polish. 


I'll stay tuned....


Laurie
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed May 30, 2007 8:06 am ]
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[QUOTE=LaurieW]

I'd love to see a tutorial - I am looking for a new finish.  I don't have spray equipment, don't want the harsh chemicals, and wasn't that impressed with the oil finish.  I am down to KTM-9 and french polish. 


I'll stay tuned....


Laurie

[/QUOTE]

I pretty much decided to do the tutorial and I love French polish finishes, but to address your ending comments; just to add to your knowledge base you might try Belhens Rockhard once till the tutorial is up and posted.
Author:  KenH [ Wed May 30, 2007 11:09 am ]
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Sounds like a GREAT idea to me too!


The one thing that isnt stressed enough in the other tutorials is that you need to wait (several days to weeks) between sessions in order to let the FP gas-off. This would have saved me loads of effort if I had been more patient with my FP job.


I'm anxious to see your method!
Author:  Wayne Clark [ Wed May 30, 2007 11:16 am ]
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Oh yeah, this sounds like a good idea to me too. I have been trying to decide how to finish #3. The first two were KTM and I'm ready to try something else. FP is definitely something I would like to try.
Author:  BruceH [ Wed May 30, 2007 11:52 am ]
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I'd love to see your FP tutorial, Michael. Thanks!
Author:  Alain Lambert [ Wed May 30, 2007 12:59 pm ]
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Thanks for the offer Micheal.
I think some short videos of the main steps would be nice, as it seems FP success depends a lot on the "touch".
Author:  Michael Lloyd [ Wed May 30, 2007 2:18 pm ]
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A great and generous idea Michael!

One area where I find lacking in the FP video I have is in the application around the fingerboard/body joint and bridge areas. Those tight and hard to get at areas.

These videos seldom show mistakes and the process in correcting them. Like what happens when too much pressure is applied or not enough oil. Or when the pad lifts the previous coat and/or smuggest the finish.

Thanks for the offer and much appreciated.
Author:  bob J [ Wed May 30, 2007 9:51 pm ]
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YEA, YEA,YEA
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed May 30, 2007 11:50 pm ]
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[QUOTE=Hodges_Guitars]

Sounds like a GREAT idea to me too!


The one thing that isnt stressed enough in the other tutorials is that you need to wait (several days to weeks) between sessions in order to let the FP gas-off. This would have saved me loads of effort if I had been more patient with my FP job.


I'm anxious to see your method!

[/QUOTE]

Hilliard,
I tend to disagree with the need to wait days between sessions. In fact you can put 3 full body and spiriting sessions in a couple hours if the right solvent is used. This all depends on how wet you lay down the body sessions and many other factors. Also if DA is used and the ethanol is denatured with anything other than 5% methanol then cure problems my happen that cause a longer cure between sessions. I will get into that more when I do the tutorial
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu May 31, 2007 12:08 am ]
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[QUOTE=mlloyd] A great and generous idea Michael!

One area where I find lacking in the FP video I have is in the application around the fingerboard/body joint and bridge areas. Those tight and hard to get at areas.

These videos seldom show mistakes and the process in correcting them. Like what happens when too much pressure is applied or not enough oil. Or when the pad lifts the previous coat and/or smuggest the finish.

Thanks for the offer and much appreciated.
[/QUOTE]

To tellyou the truth Michael I never install a bridge of Fretboard till after the guitar is finished. I do have techniques the deal with these and other tight corners but it is best to avoid having to deal with tight corners if possible and you will have enough of them without the bridge or fretboard being in place
Carefully scraping back the finish to wood to install the FB and bridge is a truly a better idea. but in short, if you have no choice then you need to pinch your muneca into a small point and us it as a micro muneca. the process is the same just in a smaller foot print. putting down the shellac is not near the problem as spiriting off and glazing in those areas.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Thu May 31, 2007 2:23 am ]
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I really look forward to your tutorial, Michael. You also mentioned Behlen's Rockhard, and it made me think it would be great if someone would do a tutorial on producing an excellent finish with that varnish as well.

Thanks!
Author:  af_one [ Thu May 31, 2007 2:24 am ]
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I really need it!
Author:  Wade Sylvester [ Thu May 31, 2007 2:54 am ]
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If it's interest you are looking for, you can count me in!
Thanks for offering this Michael.
I look forward to it.
Any particular tools or preferred materials needed ahead of time?

Wade
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu May 31, 2007 3:08 am ]
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[QUOTE=Wade S.] If it's interest you are looking for, you can count me in!
Thanks for offering this Michael.
I look forward to it.
Any particular tools or preferred materials needed ahead of time?

Wade[/QUOTE]

While they will be covered in the tutorial I will tell you to greatly improve your chances of sucess the first time, find these two items.

well worn undyed muslin or undyed linen for your outer muneca cover These are the most lent free materials with the best fluid flow abilities for the job. Also undyed 100% wool for your inner pad. High grade cheesecloth will work here but the wool is the best for holding and releasing the proper shellac flow.

The wool is the hardest to find in my area as there is not much of a garment industry around here. Undyed hunting socks is where I get my wool. I get my worn muslin from discarded sheets from a high end Hotel here. Well worn is best because the fibers have shed their factory cut shards and the weave has loosened up.
Author:  Colin S [ Thu May 31, 2007 3:20 am ]
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I look forward to your tutorial Michael, I've FP'd about 30 instruments now and am happy with my technique but I'm always open to new ideas and a fresh approach, though from past threads I think we both work in very similar ways.

As to materials for the muneca I too always use old linen sheets, which we can actually get from Axminster our major tool supplier, they (for the Brits among us) are marked for the Sunlight company! I use about a dozen 4" squares on each instrument. I use cotton waste for the inner pad and have found it holds and releases the shellac perfectly for my technique. In fact I've just been doing it on the top of my latest OM.

I always glue the bridge on and finish the set-up before I FP the top (my fingerboard is not glued down) as I like to finish sanding nd tuning the top with the strings on. A lot of classical builders do this. FPing around the bridge is not hard. I will be interested to see your solution Michael.

Colin
Author:  CarltonM [ Thu May 31, 2007 7:31 am ]
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Bring it on! We can take it!    Thanks for offering to take on the extra work load for this.
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