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| side bending (begginer) http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=12257 |
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| Author: | ikewil [ Thu May 31, 2007 1:39 am ] |
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Hello helpful friends. I am just getting started on my first one(steel dread). All the tools are costing me a fortune. I have already made the bending jig. My question(i have a million) can indian rosewood be boiled and then put in the form.( i have somthing to boil the wood so i don't have to purchase a blanket). Any other ideas( i purchased a lmi kit with O'Brien Dvd).... Have a great day |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Thu May 31, 2007 2:08 am ] |
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First off welcome to the OLF Ike, There are many who soak/boil the wood before bending but, that alone will not allow you to bend the wood. The heat loosens the fibres and allows the wood to be pliable to bend. The heat from the water is not enough to loosen the fibres enough. You really need to get the wood to about 275-300* for wood to relax enough to bend. So you can either use a pipe or get the blanket or use light bulbs like the good old days when the fox bender first came out. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu May 31, 2007 3:18 am ] |
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I really wold not want much added moisture to my sides. If it does not all cook out during the bend then you run a high risk of the sides cupping once you take the sides out of the bending press. At best this leads to a lot of sanding to smooth the sides out. At worst will mean a lot of work steaming out the cup to avoid having to sand your sides too thin to make them smooth. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Thu May 31, 2007 5:04 am ] |
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Boiling sides was an Irving Sloan process for bending sides. Boiled for 45 minutes to an hour depending on the wood. |
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| Author: | charliewood [ Thu May 31, 2007 5:04 am ] |
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From what I understand (in my limited knowledge) is that instrument makers used to use steam, as the primary heat source to plasticize the wood - and that the moisture contributes minimally to the process, With modern technology however, I believe you can get the heat needed to make the wood bend (plasticize) with bending blankets, bending irons, and less water is needed in order to perform the operation efficiently. Ive seen people (in tutorials, books etc) who bend thier rosewood this soaking boiling method still, for instance Jonathan Kinkead springs to mind.. I think this is more of an homage to tradition, or personal preference, than an absolute necessity. But as I say my knowledge of luthierie is limited compared to most here at the OLF and Im sure someone will chime in with the "final word" on the subject. Cheers Charliewood |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Thu May 31, 2007 5:16 am ] |
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I wasn't promoting the idea, but just making a point. Seems to me that the side bending video in a previous post also included boiling before bending on a pipe. I noticed too that he used a lot of water, bent only minimal curves, then clamped in a mold. All done very quickly. |
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| Author: | martinedwards [ Thu May 31, 2007 5:41 am ] |
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today I bent a set of walnut sides for a cutaway mini jumbo. I planed them to 2mm then steamed them for about 5 mins with a wall paper stripper then I finished the bend on a pipe heated with a paint stripper hot air gun. both sides done in about 10 minutes. Couldn't BELIEVE how fast it bent!! (and a couple of tight bends too...) 
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Thu May 31, 2007 5:54 am ] |
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Now that's interesting. How did you vent the hot air from the gun? Did you have it aimed away from you, like any young marksman learns? |
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| Author: | martinedwards [ Thu May 31, 2007 6:06 am ] |
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pipe in a vice, stopper in the end of the pipe to stop "blowout" and a hole underneath to let the air escape down side? well the diameter isn't great and heating a vice up to hot enough for water to boil when dropped on the anvil section prolly isn't great for it!!! 
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Thu May 31, 2007 7:20 am ] |
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Pretty neat. You could probably put a couple of blocks of wood in there and keep the vice from heat-sinking your heat off. They might get hot and char a little, but they probably wouldn't catch on fire. You could even wet them. I found a pick-up truck tail-pipe section about 3" in diameter & 20" long, at a parts store, sawed it in half, slotted one half, then squeezed it inside the other half. gives a good 1/8" + of thickness. I haven't used it yet, but getting closer. I have a big ol' soldering iron in it now, but the heat gun thing is a good idea. It would be faster, not sure about control. |
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| Author: | martinedwards [ Thu May 31, 2007 8:15 am ] |
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water on it cools it, and the vise acts as a heat STORE not a sink. |
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| Author: | Sam Price [ Thu May 31, 2007 8:22 am ] |
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I use the same setup as Martin, except I use one of those "workmate" benches...the handle of the heatgun clamped in the bench and the pipe propped up with a metallic object...luckily the tube I use fits the nozzle of the gun perfectly. 
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| Author: | MSpencer [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:10 pm ] |
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I think a Light Bulb side bending machine would be better than boiling! I don't have a blanket, still using 200W bulbs in the bender and it works fine for me. Mike |
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| Author: | Kim [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:34 pm ] |
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I know that most now use a blanket or some kind of heated form, but not all, check THIS out. See some do still boil, but I would not try it on anything other than well quartered wood. Quilted maple would be out of the question me thinks. Cheers Kim |
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| Author: | martinedwards [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:11 pm ] |
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you see how TACTILE that guy is? he TOUCHES the mould, the bending iron, all the wooden blocks...... and forcing it into the mould before it's fully bent...... well, it works with walnut and he does it with EIR, but you're right about maple...... don't ask how I know this......... 
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| Author: | tippie53 [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:53 pm ] |
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http://www.bluescreekguitars.com/tutorial10.php This is a llink to a tutorial on bending. Boiling wood to make it bendable isn't a good idea. Too mush moisture can make the wood do come wierd things. Cupping and warping are often associated problems with too much water. You want just enough water to help the heat penetrate. The water creates steam and that is what helps the heat to penetrate deeper into the wood and it also acts as an anti scortch agent. Working temps for most woods are in the 270 to 375 range. Light bulbs are a bit slower and won't attain the same heat but will bend most standard size bodies. The tutorial will give you pix and more info that I can place here. Have fun and I hope this info helps john hall blues creek guitars |
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| Author: | Kim [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:05 pm ] |
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Yep he's a hands on guy alright and by the way, that is BRW he is using not EIR 
Cheers Kim |
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| Author: | Sam Price [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:56 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=larkim] I know that most now use a blanket or some kind of heated form, but not all, check THIS out. See some do still boil, but I would not try it on anything other than well quartered wood. Quilted maple would be out of the question me thinks. Cheers Kim [/QUOTE] LOL, Volbrecht is the best!!   WHat a personality! I was being very nerdy one evening, and watched ALL his vids on Youtube..
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| Author: | RobE [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:31 am ] |
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To add onto John's post, I found another link that shows how a lightbulb bender would be assembled. http://www.ukuleles.com/BuildingHowTo/sidebend.html |
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