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It’s all Shane and John How’s fault . . .
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Author:  Dave White [ Thu May 31, 2007 2:57 am ]
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I've been gearing up to make a Harp guitar and got a fantastic set of Lutz from Shane for this. I had it all planned out - Grand Concert sized guitar with multiscale fan-fretted main neck and 5 sub-bass strings on a hollow neck sort of Dyer style. But then two things happened. Firstly, inspired by John How's fabulous builds I made a copy of an early last century Concert sized ladder braced guitar with a few modern twists (Jack the Lad) and have become lost in the surprising complexity of the tones and sounds of this instrument, particularly in DADGAD. And then Shane sent me a set of EIR sides protected by two pieces of Lutz.

Well - Shanes "packing grade" Lutz is pretty perfectly quatersawn with fantastic cross-silking, and having grown as a tree for many years and then crossed the Atlantic more as a bridesmaid than a bride I thought it deserved better. A few quick calculations and it turned out as a 4 piecer it would make a perfect top for a Concert sized harp guitar - well if Bob Taylor can do it . . .

So welcome to the start of "Jacob" (Jacob's Ladder that went up to heaven where the angels play harps ... get it ) which will be a ladder braced Concert sized harp guitar. Main neck will be 24.6" scale length with slotted headstock, and there will be 6 sub-bass strings over a hollow arm with scale length around 28" that will also finish in a slotted peghead via a nut. Back is a 6 piece English walnut with sides cut from the same billet. It will be a slim guitar at around 3" or so deep. This will be a "TOOZ" guitar (sort of the antithesis of a ZOOT guitar). After this I will make a "proper" harp guitar with Shane's fabulous Lutz set - when I find a b/s sides set that does it justice.

The build will be documented here on my website and I will post progress photos here from time to time. Here are the first few:

First the mold (Heath Robinson inspired ):



The back and sides:



And the top:



Off to do some side bending ... thanks for looking.
Author:  Sam Price [ Thu May 31, 2007 3:57 am ]
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Wow Dave, what an exciting endeavour. This is going to be a great instrument; I nearly pulled the trigger on Shane's harp guitar set (telling me that I could store the stuff underneath my bed) but alas, I don't have the funds at the moment, so my harp guitar plans are on hold at the moment.

I am looking forward to reading of your progress. Oh yeah, and have fun bending that wood. I think a little French might help you in this challenging task...
Author:  charliewood [ Thu May 31, 2007 4:24 am ]
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What a Fantastic Idea!!!!
Cant wait to find out what this one is going to turn out like... and Ill definitely be following this novel project with great interest.
Cheers
Charliewood
Author:  Wade Sylvester [ Thu May 31, 2007 4:54 am ]
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Jacob is Looking Good there Dave!
I love how the wood can sometimes inspire the build.
Thanks for documenting this project.
As always, I enjoy seeing your building process.

How are you planning to tune the sub bass strings?

Wade
Author:  Dave White [ Thu May 31, 2007 5:16 am ]
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Sam,

Mais oui As you know Walnut bends like butter so all of the French should be very polite and tres jollie!

Michael,

The "cunning plan" is definitely turnip and badger free so all should be well. Wow - a friend of John Doan - lucky you!! Unfortunately I'll be elsewhere on the 31st July but thanks for the link.

Charliewood,

Thanks - however it turns out it's going to be another fun project - the best sort!

Todd,

I know what you mean - if I was close enough I'd be dumpster diving outside High Mountain Tonewoods a la Martin Edwards

Wade,

Yes - wood does talk. I need a practice run too.

As to the string tunings I don't really know and there will be lots of fun experimenting. A lot depends on how low I can go down - 0.070" is the biggest string I want to use. I suspect it might be something like F, G, A, B, Bb, C to go with DADGAD, or maybe I might double up some of the sub basses to the same note. That's part of the fun I'm looking forward too.

Looking forward to seeing what you have in mind harp guitar wise.
Author:  Colin S [ Thu May 31, 2007 8:31 am ]
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Dave as tou know I am always waiting with baited breath for the next De Faoite venture and you never disappoint! I'm currently working on something of similar length, in my case an Archlute, but I expect you'll be finished about 2 years before me!

Now that's an instrument that would really do Turlough's music proud.

Colin
Author:  Don A [ Thu May 31, 2007 2:16 pm ]
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Dave, I'm looking forward to following this build. Your work always astounds me.
Author:  Shane Neifer [ Thu May 31, 2007 5:53 pm ]
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Yi Hoo! Dave. Can't wait to see this one. I might have a solution for your back and side issue on the next one. It just arrived today! I am glad that you found a great use for my 'packaging'

Shane
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:23 am ]
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Dave this does look interesting. And as has been said, you never disappoint.
Q.- Do you think (well, duh, you must) that the ladder bracing can withstand the pull of those 400 strings?
I'd like to know your thoughts on that when you get a chance....

Thanks,

Steve
Author:  John How [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:36 am ]
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Too cool Dave, I'll be watchin'. I want to do a ladder braced hollow neck of the wiesenborn variety one of these days but it's gonna have to wait a while. Have fun and keep us up to date. And I know we'll be able to hear it when your done!!!!
Author:  Dave White [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:00 pm ]
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Colin,

Thanks - that Archlute sounds fun!

Don,

It sometimes astounds me too - part way through I say to myself "Now why did you want to do this?"

Shane.

You tease - what have you got hiding away?

Steve,

Thanks - I love watching the builds of your instruments too. Thinking - now I knew there was something I had forgotten I think it will be just fine, and here are my thoughts "inside the box".

- I'm starting to think that ladder bracing v X bracing is a bit like Neanderthal v Cro-magnon man. Due to quirks of fate one line took over from or domonated the other but given different circumstances we could all be Neanderthals without the connatation the word currently has.

- ladder braced 12 strings a la Leadbelly are sucessfully made today - is it Neil Harte that makes them?

- I will be building it "modern style" like Jack the Lad with cf butress braces to take neck stresses into the sides, reinforced soundhole patch and adjustable neck joint. Plus the sub bass strings will be using the hollow neck which I know works well on Weissenborn type guitars.

- the scale length is short and the main guitar will use 0.012"-0.053" strings which in DADGAD gives only 138lb pull. The sub bass strings are spread over the bass side lower bout rather than in the centre with the others and as they aren't fretted won't require huge tension - maybe 90-120lb giving 220-250lb in total.

- Shane's Lutz (even packaging grade ) is incredibly stiff lengthwise and very stiff cross-wise. I build my tops with big arches and this helps with strength and stability as well as sound imho. The old original that Jack the Lad is based on has a very domed top after 80 odd years and when I look at pictures of old guitars that people say sound great they too are pretty domed on the top. The string tension won't be enough to pull the top off (famous last words ) and playability issues of the first 6 strings are catered for by the adjustable neck. The sub-bass strings aren't fretted and like the Weiss action height playability won't be an issue.

- from looking at X bracing designs for harp guitars, to accomidate the extra stings the X is very open indeed - not that far away from becoming ladders

This is all theory though and there's only one way to find out. If it doesn't work then I'll see if I can get Pete Townsend to let me make it his "signature" harp guitar
Author:  Dave White [ Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:02 pm ]
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John,

You were the inspiration Thanks!

A ladder braced Weiss would be very interesting indeed.
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:41 pm ]
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Dave,
Nice, thorough answer. I had forgotten about your CF bracing, which I think in this case would be some good insurance. Ditto the adjustable neck joint. And, keeping Pete's phone # on hand might be unnecessary, though pretty heady stuff.

Keep us posted,

Steve
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