Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Sun Dec 01, 2024 7:27 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:14 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:50 am
Posts: 3152
Location: Canada
With the series on processing that I have shared in the past, I have yet to show the falling of the tree. So here ya go!

To do this job I call on a friend of mine who is a 'certified faller' and does this for a living every day!. Rememebr, this particular tree is about 48" in diametre at the butt and about 200 feet tall!!! It weighs a bit too ....

So here is Gary starting the "back cut". To fall a tree safely you need to create a "hindge". This allows a faller to leave enough wood so that the tree falls in a controlled manner. These guys can drop these giants right where they want them!



So the first cut across the front on the tree (the direction it will fall) is done, that is the first of three series of cuts.



The second series of cuts creates the "undercut". Gary is starting that here.



Here he has just completed the undercut.



Now just a little "tune up" to make sure that the transition between the horizontal cut and the sloped cut is clean and crisp. This becomes the "hidge".



One more good look to be sure that the cuts are placed properly to get the tree down in the right place.



The first of a series of cuts to complete the "falling cut". This cut is horizontal and ideally is about 2" higher than the "back cut" but can never be below the back cut. This is where the "holding wood" is left that allows the faller to control the location the tree will fall. Improper falling practices, even by seasoned pros, result in many deaths each year in our forests. So Gary and I take LOTS of time getting these trees on to the ground safely.



One side of the falling cut is complete.



Here Gary is bringing the falling cut around the to the other side of the tree. His bar is about 3 feet long so he has to cut from both sides of the tree.



TIMBER!!! Here you can see the falling cut opening up. On the other side of the tree the notch that was cut out is closing as a result of the step in the cut heights and the strip of wood that was left in the middle of the tree (the hindge).



And here it is, on the ground, right where we wanted it! The main trunk of the tree is in great shape (no broken sections and no cracks!) and we did it safely!



Tomorrow I get the tree scaled (the process of determining the volume of the tree, I have to pay for this wood yet!) and then I will process this tree right on site into billets and haul them back to my place with my trailer. The tree is about 36 km off the highway and is about a 50 or 60 minute drive from my place. There is actually a fair bit of active logging going on in this general location right now so driving the roads is dangerous as well as loaded logging trucks are hauling all day through the week. The roads are radio controlled so in order to be in that area you must have a radio in your truck so that you can communicte your location on the these narrow forest roads. BUT, today we saw a beautiful shimmering black coated black bear. He was great looking, huge and healthy! Just one of the perks of doing this stuff!

Hope you enjoyed this little side bar!

Shane

_________________
Canada


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:33 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:53 am
Posts: 2104
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
First name: Anthony
Last Name: Zlahtic
City: Toronto
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Super pictures and explanation Shane! So glad to see you were able to score a log.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:37 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 4217
Location: Buffalo, NY
First name: Robert
Last Name: Cefalu
City: Buffalo
State: NY
Zip/Postal Code: 14217
Country: US
Great pic's Shane. Should yield some awesome wood.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:20 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:21 am
Posts: 2924
Location: Changes when ever I move..Australia
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Thanks Shane, looks fantastic

Cheers

Kim



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:24 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:37 pm
Posts: 499
Location: United States
Hey Shane,

That was a great photo sequence!

I have to admit, as much as I try to ALWAYS save a tree during the construction of a home.
There’s still something exciting about falling one. Did you count the rings? I’ve always liked to
know how old the tree was, that I cut down. My guess is, that was about a 200 year old tree,
depending on the tightness of the rings, that is. Here where I live pines generally have 1/8" to 1/4"
wide rings. I would think up there in a much colder climate, they would be closer to 1/8" wide.

Also, I’m sitting here wondering about how many tops you could get from a log that size.
I’m sure you have an idea about how many. I’ll take a stab at it, and say several hundred!

Thanks for the slide show!

Robert

_________________
Everything has beauty, But, not everyone see's it!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:07 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:05 am
Posts: 9191
Location: United States
First name: Waddy
Last Name: Thomson
City: Charlotte
State: NC
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
That is a great series of shots, Shane.  Thanks for posting that.  What a fine looking tree.  Good luck on the billet cutting process.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:19 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:15 pm
Posts: 2302
Location: Florida

I shared your pictures and this link with some of the guys from a logging forum I belong to. You obviously know what you are doing and they may benefit in seeing how to fell a whopper of a tree safely.


Thanks for sharing!


_________________
Reguards,

Ken H


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:28 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:05 am
Posts: 9191
Location: United States
First name: Waddy
Last Name: Thomson
City: Charlotte
State: NC
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Shane:

Just out of curiosity, how long did that process take (ballpark) from first cut to the fall?


_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:49 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:11 am
Posts: 2761
Location: Tampa Bay
First name: Dave
Last Name: Anderson
City: Clearwater
State: Florida
Zip/Postal Code: 33755
Country: United States
Great news Shane,More Lutz tops! Great Post and excellant pics. Thats cool that you got to see a big healthy black bear. Do you ever run into grizzlys out in the woods?

_________________
Anderson Guitars
Clearwater,Fl. 33755


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:50 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:50 am
Posts: 3152
Location: Canada
[QUOTE=Hodges_Guitars]

I shared your pictures and this link with some of the guys from a logging forum I belong to. You obviously know what you are doing and they may benefit in seeing how to fell a whopper of a tree safely.


Thanks for sharing!

[/QUOTE]

I really don't mind you sharing this but please, PLEASE, don't use this post as a step by step tutorial on how to fall tree. There are many more things to consider in falling one of these than I have explained above. These spruce trees typically have a definate lean that gives you an indication where it wants to fall, although a good faller can make it go where he likes, it gets harder. With deciduous trees and their crown canopy it can a bit harder to determine the lean. Anyway, more detail on this process can be found by searching the BC Forest Safety Council Website. Sorry for the excitement here but tree falling is a dangerous thing, even when you know what your are doing. So far my only mishap was flattening a neighbours shed. At least I could repair that!

[QUOTE=robertandsons] My guess is, that was about a 200 year old tree,
depending on the tightness of the rings, that is. Here where I live pines generally have 1/8" to 1/4"
wide rings. I would think up there in a much colder climate, they would be closer to 1/8" wide.

Also, I’m sitting here wondering about how many tops you could get from a log that size.[/QUOTE]

We didn't count yet Robert but this tree will be more in the 4-600 year old range, I will let you know though. And several hundred sets is correct, now of what quality is the real question and I won't know until I start sawing a few of them.

Waddy, it took about 45 minutes to an hour by the time we 'opened' up an area to fall the tree (we had to fall some smaller tree that were in the line that tree would fall) and finally got it on the ground. If Gary was falling in a clear cut I am sure it would have been done sooner, but for me, safety is FIRST!

Shane

_________________
Canada


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:00 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:53 pm
Posts: 2198
Location: Hughenden Valley, England
Shane,

I hope that black bear went back to add some "bear claw" to the tree and then pee on it to set in motion the "magic tone generation" process

Fabulous photos and explanation of the process. As that beauty has been there quietly for 400-600 years it deserves some special luthiers love, care and attention to make it sing everywhere over the earth for ever ane ever ... amen.

p.s save me a few sets

_________________
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:33 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:05 pm
Posts: 3350
Location: Bakersville, NC
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
YEAHHH MORE LUTZ!!!!

Shane, that was great! Thanks for sharing...

_________________
Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:38 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:32 am
Posts: 2683
Location: Ithaca, New York, United States
Great to hear you've been able to get out there and harvest a tree, Shane. I really appreciate the care and respect with which you do this work.

_________________
Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:51 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:40 am
Posts: 2694
Location: United States
First name: John
Last Name: How
City: Auburn
State: Ca
Country: USA
Lutz, Lutz, Lutz. As I am writing this, my lutz order is sitting at the post office waiting for me to pick it up tonight!!!!
Thanks for sharing Shane, great picks. Please post more as your processing if you have the time.

_________________
Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:59 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:39 am
Posts: 515
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur

Shane - thanks for posting this - I am interested in all things guitar related!  Very interesting and looking forward to see more...


 


Lauire


 


 


_________________
____________________________________
Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:13 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:37 pm
Posts: 499
Location: United States
Dave, that was a very nice prayer. We should all be thankful for that tree giving itself to the music world.

Shane, of course you’re right about the age! When I read your post expecting it to be 400-600 years old.
I said to myself, “WOW! That 20 rings/in. Then It dawned on me, that’s about the norm for good
quality spruce tops! We don’t get that kind tight ringed wood around here. Not even in hardwoods.

I was wondering something else. Do you pick your trees based on their health?

Robert

_________________
Everything has beauty, But, not everyone see's it!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:19 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:50 am
Posts: 3152
Location: Canada
[QUOTE=DaveAndy] Great news Shane,More Lutz tops! Great Post and excellant pics. Thats cool that you got to see a big healthy black bear. Do you ever run into grizzlys out in the woods?[/QUOTE]

Hey Dave,

I don't see Grizzly's that often. Once or twice a year at most these days, usually on the side of the road near our house. I used to work for the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and one of my jobs was to fly into remote river systems by helicopter and get dropped off high up the river with a shotgun and rubber raft. Then my partner and I would spend the day (usually 12 hours or so) floating down the system counting salmon and get picked up at dusk at the bottom of the system. That is when I saw LOTS of Grizzly's. They are awesome creatures!! And luckily, I never had any issues with any of them. I have been quite close to many, not usually by design but rather circumstance, luckily again that they prefer to eat the abundant fish and berry's and not people, so they typically take off once they are aware of your presence!

Thanks for the comments all. For the newer members here (and the lurkers) if you search the archives under "processing" or "harvest" (I can't remember which) you will find a three part series I have done on processing these trees into tops.

Shane

_________________
Canada


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:33 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:51 am
Posts: 2148
Location: San Diego, CA
First name: Andy
Last Name: Zimmerman
City: San Diego
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 92103
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Love the shots

More Lutz!!!!! Hoootyhooo!!!!!!!

_________________
Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:34 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:50 am
Posts: 3152
Location: Canada
[QUOTE=robertandsons] Dave, that was a very nice prayer. We should all be thankful for that tree giving itself to the music world.

Shane, of course you’re right about the age! When I read your post expecting it to be 400-600 years old.
I said to myself, “WOW! That 20 rings/in. Then It dawned on me, that’s about the norm for good
quality spruce tops! We don’t get that kind tight ringed wood around here. Not even in hardwoods.

I was wondering something else. Do you pick your trees based on their health?

Robert[/QUOTE]

Hey Robert

I use a few criteria for selecting trees. This tree has a couple of issues that would have resulted in it not standing for too much longer. But the health of the tree is only considered in the context of the quality of the wood it would produce. I take a core sample that is deeper than the depth I would need to process a top. This will tell me if the interior of the tree is sound or not. If the middle is rotten but I can still get tops from processing the outside of the tree then I am fine with that. If the tree looks like it has good potential but is rotten on top (usually the top will be broken off or something like that) I may consider taking the tree knowing that the upper section is no good at all. Although some spalting is good in some cases for backs and sides it has no place for tops. So I do take care in that regard.

As too the grain count, I think it is about 20 grains per inch, that is what my notes prior to harvest say. Still, I reserve all of my evaluations until I see some tops off the resaw and have a chance to flex, tap and look at them.....

Shane

_________________
Canada


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:17 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:46 am
Posts: 1012
Location: Issaquah, Washington USA
Being a tree hugger I always hate to see a tree come down - even to the extent of preserving a couple of 100 foot+ Douglas Firs in my back yard. When it gets windy in the winter, I get down on my knees and pray they don't slice my home in two.  The happy side is seeing these trees turned into musical instruments instead of toilet paper - the sad ending for much of our old growth. Thanks for the pictorial!

_________________
A higher purpose for wood.
Rich Smith
Issaquah, WA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:52 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:46 am
Posts: 588
Location: Is this heaven? "No, it's Iowa."
Thanks Shane! What an adventure. I do wish I could be there to help with your harvest. But, I can't. so... what I will do is make the best guitars I can with a little of that beautiful tree. It's amazing to think about all the music this tree will be making in just a few short years.

Long

_________________
"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man.” -Heraclitus of Ephesus


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:47 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:11 am
Posts: 2761
Location: Tampa Bay
First name: Dave
Last Name: Anderson
City: Clearwater
State: Florida
Zip/Postal Code: 33755
Country: United States


Hey Dave,

I don't see Grizzly's that often. Once or twice a year at most these days, usually on the side of the road near our house. I used to work for the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and one of my jobs was to fly into remote river systems by helicopter and get dropped off high up the river with a shotgun and rubber raft. Then my partner and I would spend the day (usually 12 hours or so) floating down the system counting salmon and get picked up at dusk at the bottom of the system. That is when I saw LOTS of Grizzly's. They are awesome creatures!! And luckily, I never had any issues with any of them. I have been quite close to many, not usually by design but rather circumstance, luckily again that they prefer to eat the abundant fish and berry's and not people, so they typically take off once they are aware of your presence!

Thanks for the comments all. For the newer members here (and the lurkers) if you search the archives under "processing" or "harvest" (I can't remember which) you will find a three part series I have done on processing these trees into tops.

Shane[/QUOTE]
Shane,That sounds like a Great job ,you used to have!!
I love the outdoors and wildlife of all kinds. I've seen those wildlife shows showing the grizzlies fishing.I could imagine what it would be like to float down among them on a little raft! WoW !I'm sure you kept an eye out for mothers with cubs. Thanks for the post. Very interesting!

_________________
Anderson Guitars
Clearwater,Fl. 33755


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:10 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:50 am
Posts: 3152
Location: Canada
Cool Terry,

Looking forward to the pics!

Shane

_________________
Canada


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com