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tropical forests, going, going ...
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=12411		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  johnfgraham [ Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070610/sc_nm/deforestation_dc

This article appeared yesterday on the yahoo news. It's a very disturbing
account of the current state of the world's tropical forests.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070610/sc_nm/deforestation_dc

I'm new to this group. And so you all know a bit about where I'm coming
from - I began my infatuation with guitars early on as a kid
in Oklahoma. Something I never got out of my system.

I've worked most of my adult life as an agronomist in various tropical
countries - mostly in Latin America, some in Africa. I have been working
for the past 17 years in Mexico, as an advisor to a network of
organic farmer groups for the most part located in the Baja peninsula.

During the past 30 years or so, I've seen rampant deforestation high and
low everywhere I've been. And very few efforts, however well meaning, in
the way of conservation or planting of trees that have come anywhere
closely proportional to the tree cutting.

Quoting from the article linked above,
"From central Africa to the Amazon basin and Indonesia's islands, the
world's great forests are being lost at an annual rate of at least 13 million
hectares (32 million acres) -- an area the size of Greece or Nicaragua."
That's every year.

"Without drastic action, the United Nations says, 98 percent of remaining
forests will be gone by 2022, with dire consequences for local people and
wildlife, including endangered rhinos, tigers and orangutans."
Not to mention luthiers.

This group, the OLF, is made up of the finest, noblest, most
knowledgeable, open minded, and information sharing bunch of folks
that I've ever seen, and, in modesty, I'll tell you I've seen and been a
participant in many a group.

Nobody has a higher reverence for these disappearing woods, and
hopefully for the forests where they come from. If and when the beautiful
woods that make up the raw materials for this small and dedicated
community of luthiers dries up, all the centuries of traditions, knowledge,
craft and art will be silenced and useless.

Luthiers make up a tiny % of the demand for wood for the vanishing
hardwoods - but unlike many of the shadowy, shady, clear cutters and
their greed driven task masters, quick kill corporations and corrupt
governments whose combined efforts allow for the mowing down of the
tropical forests - the luthiers art & craft is done out in the open, in the
daylight for all to see and appreciate, above all their works are testaments
to why these woods and the trees and forests are part of a heritage for all
humanity.

Therefore, I ask all of you to do what you can, in little ways or big ways,
to do what you can to protect what's left and contribute to the
conservation and propagation of trees and forests.

A parting note - I hope I don't get kicked out of the group, shortly after
having joined, for sermonizing. This is just an absolutely fantastic group.
I appreciate all of you, hold you all in the highest of esteem.

john g tropical deforestation
Author:  fryovanni [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:20 am ]
Post subject: 
I think most Luthiers want to see better management. Maybe with a few governments taking the lead(realising the value of these resources) and regulating the industry they will not only get better use of but also ensure sustainability. If they recognise the value of each tree, and how efficient harvesting methods that do not destroy the value of all the surrounding trees will yeild more value. Maybe they will change the way business is done.

I live in the Pacific Northwest. Our Salmon population has taken big hits. I look at the value of these fish from a sports fisherman vs a commercial fisherman. A sport fisherman will buy a lot of supplies, license, pay for guided trips, logging and so forth. Each fish that sport fisherman takes will generate a fair bit of reveniew for the area, as well as most likely be used without much waste or harm to other species. From a government point of view it seems logical that they would recognise the value in that. I would also point out that the strongest advocates of the health of the fisheries are generally sport fisherman(they want it to be strong and healthy).

I understand that many people have made a living commercially fishing, and logging for that matter in the Pacific NW. They want that job and income, but if it is just not sustainable it can't happen. However many new jobs could be created for these people if they work with the resource to get the most out of what is sustainable.

There is my little rant
Peace,Rich
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Careful guys! This could become a political topic quick!
Author:  charliewood [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:50 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Hesh1956] John I don't think that you should have any thing to worry about for bring up something that we all should be worrying about. Thank You.
[/QUOTE]


I wouldnt be so sure about that Hesh - I brought this issue up a while ago and was told by admins here that this fell under the political discussion banner and that however well meaning... it is something that should be addressed elsewhere, where there is already something in the works in this vein.
Mind you this was right after the braziltonewoods bruhaha, and conflict was fresh in the air at that time...
I was told by a luthier once that the amount of wood used by one custom builder in his entire lifetime, was really very incosequential to the whole scheme of things - (amounting to mabye 1(-3) full grown trees worth of wood}
However the veneer industry, the furniture industry, the logging industry etc are extremely wasteful in thier harvesting basically mowing everything in thier paths and sorting out what they actually want aterwards...
These are the type of industries that need to be pressures into reforming thier practices and restricting thier harvesting!!!!!!
Otherwise the thread poster is right there wont be 1-3 trees per luthier to build guitars from any longer.
I think this relates to luthierie DIRECTLY
mabye more than anything else discussed here?
Cheers
Charliewood
Author:  LanceK [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:01 am ]
Post subject: 
As Michael says, this could be a topic that rides a razors edge. Talking about how we as guitar builders may effect the rain forests is fine. Discussing who is more to blame, and what certain governments are doing or not doing, then it becomes a little to political for the OLF.
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:23 am ]
Post subject: 
This sort of thing is like a flood. You hear about the rain and snow melt upstream, but the weather is nice where you are, and it's easy to hope that maybe it will all pass off without problems. By the time the water really starts to rise you've frittered away the time that could have been used to mitigate the outcome, and are left with emergency efforts and triage.

Politics? Sure, it's political, but the irony is that it should not be. Maybe the time has come when we need to stop worrying about who voted for whom, and just start filling sandbags together.

This has been talked about for thirty years, to my knowlege, I know a number of luthiers besides myself who have worked for years to learn about 'alternative' woods, and get them out. There is more acceptance now than there has been, sure, but not anything like the amount there should be. It's entirely plausible that within our lifetimes people will be happy just to find a guitar made of wood; any kind, any number of pieces.

OTOH, who knows, maybe with global climate change we'll see Brazilian rosewood and mahogany growing halfway up the Mississippi. Maybe pigs wil fly.

Author:  martinedwards [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:24 am ]
Post subject: 
Who's to blame?

well, I TRY not to be.

in 23 builds I've bought back & sides for.......

4

OK, fretboards are EIR or ebony, but y'all know I love the wabisabi concept and dumpster diving.

maybe we all gotta be a little more fussy about where our wood is sourced.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:50 am ]
Post subject: 
NOTICE THIS IS MEANT AS A JOKE!!!!! AN OFF THE WALL PIECE OF HUMOR!!!!! NOT AS TRUE PERSONAL OPINION!!!!

It really will not matter much because in 2036 a know meteor will pass inside the satellite orbit of earth in 2036 and return in 7 years at an even close pass and may hit the earth. This impact will likely wipe out all warm weather flora on earth as well ans most mammals
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:53 am ]
Post subject: 
NOTICE THIS IS MEANT AS A JOKE!!!!! AN OFF THE WALL PIECE OF HUMOR!!!!! NOT AS TRUE PERSONAL OPINION!!!!

It really will not matter much because in 2036 a know meteor will pass inside the satellite orbit of earth and return in 7 years at an even close pass and may hit the earth. This impact will likely wipe out all warm weather flora on earth as well as most mammals

IF ONLY i HAD A DAND *%#! BUTTON
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:46 am ]
Post subject: 
Maybe we should use the last few shuttle launches to build an Orion ship?
Author:  martinedwards [ Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:54 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Alan Carruth] Maybe we should use the last few shuttle launches to build an Orion ship?[/QUOTE]

out of cocobolo maybe?
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