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I’m spraying a burst...
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=12461		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  James Orr [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:05 am ]
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Hey everyone

I'm preparing myself to spray a burst. I have the base layer of color down, but now I'm not sure what to do next. I'm using the Guitar ReRanch 3 color Fender burst set of sprays, and their directions say to spray the base color, then the outside layer of black, and THEN to do the red shading. Something about that seems wrong. Their reasoning is that you can use the black as a guide for your interior red shading.

But won't you see red over the black??? What would you do?

This bass is my model. If I can approach this, I will be very very happy:

Author:  Barry Daniels [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:30 am ]
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You won't see the red over the darker areas of black.
Author:  John How [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:43 am ]
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I do it just like you might think, I do the base the base then the red then the outer black and it works fine for me. If your spraying tints then you might get away with what they suggest. I am by no means an authority on this subject but I think I spray a mean burst as well.
Author:  Pwoolson [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:47 am ]
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James, I would agree with John. Go light to dark. In theory you shouldn't see a color on top of black...BUT...if you don't cover all of the black with the red, you'll see it reflect a different color. It will appear more blue than the areas that got red sprayed over them.
Author:  Kelby [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:59 am ]
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Spraying red over black will look different than spraying black over red. Both will look fine, but it's a question of what you like best.

When in doubt, rely on the #1 rule of finishing: try it on scrap both ways and see which one you like better.
Author:  James Orr [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:38 am ]
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Thanks guys! Light to dark just seems logical, and I'm glad to hear you
all think so too.

Hesh, I'm having a hard time holding it together here!

John, I'd love to see one of your bursts.    
Author:  John How [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:30 am ]
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here ya go James......

Author:  Mark Swanson [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:37 pm ]
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If you used red in that nice burst John, I can't tell!

It is indeed true that Fender used to put the red on last, and spray it right over the black. It gives the black a more deep chocolate brown color, and just makes a deeper burst. If you try it, you'll like it! You don't need much red, and go evenly over the whole black area, and run it just into the amber.
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:47 am ]
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I like the look of red over black better than black over red for Fender-style instruments, so I'm with Mark.

It's a thin, quick coat of red to blend the other two together. Works a charm.
Author:  James Orr [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:55 am ]
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Thanks guys.

I sprayed the red yesterday over the brown and sanded everything away
for the second time this morning My second coat of brown is drying
right now.

What I realized is that the shading happens naturally. I aim for a certain
area, and the edges feather themselves out from the overspray. What was
hard was seeing it happen. When I finally saw the red, I was left with an
ugle opaque ring with feathered edges.

John, the subtlety in your red is perfect!

So next time I'll go with the blackk first. When it comes to red, I'll just
spray a pass around the guitar, let it dry, and see what it looks like. And
it has to work this time. I don't have enough brown left to do another
base!
Author:  Mark Swanson [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:05 am ]
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Don't worry if things turn opague at times. When you hit it with the clear, the opague stuff disappears. Just get your color right, bring the red in slowly.
If you are mixing your own, you have an advantage. You can mix the red very thin, and then the color will build up very slowly and it's easier to get it even.
When doing a burst, it's harder to get an even color if the color mix is too strong. I like to build it up slowly.
Author:  James Orr [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:56 am ]
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Thanks, Mark. I'm using the reranch premade cans. It's encouraging to
hear that the clear will change the appearance of things. The colors
honestly weren't looking very good together. The red was more like the
color of a fake leather maroon couch than what a burst should look like.
Author:  SniderMike [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:33 pm ]
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[QUOTE=Hesh1956] James from the title of your thread I was going to
suggest that you see a urologist.... [/QUOTE]

Hesh, that made me laugh out loud. Thanks.

James, isn't it nice to color a solid body, since you can sand back just
about as much as you like without worrying about making anything too
thin?!?

Let's see some pics!
Author:  James Orr [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:13 am ]
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I'm up in the air about this. What do you think? Should I sand and try
again? I'm asking for a critical look here.

I don't know if I have enough amber left to get another coat on if I sand.
What I've learned is that spray cans are NOT the idea situation . I did
exactly as the reranch site describes (hold in center of body, spray
outward), and the overspray floats too far in. It's also very difficult to
control.   

[IMG] ../forum/useruploads/JamesOrr/2007-06-18_131340_burst2.jpg[/
IMG]
Author:  James Orr [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:17 am ]
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Author:  SniderMike [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:54 am ]
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James, I see what you mean. It doesn't look like the spray can is
atomizing the lacquer very well. Have you sprayed the red on yet? I
wonder if that would blend it in a little better???

Author:  James Orr [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:20 am ]
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I sanded it again today---definitely the last of brown though. I may
shoot them an email tonight to see if they have any further suggestions.
Author:  mhammond [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:43 am ]
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James: Last time I did a 3 color burst I used the alcohol based dyes like the instructions in Stew-Macs finishing book detail. It was amazingly easy and came out perfectly on the first try. The book is highly recommended! All the recipes and techniques.... MIke
Author:  guitarjtb [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:38 pm ]
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James, one thing I do is to hold the guitar above the spray and spray upward and outward. This way you won't have any overspray or spit marks in the lighter areas. Your arm can get really tired this way.

It is important to spray several weak coats of the red in the transition area rather than one strong coat so that you get a gradual color change. This may not be possible with the spray cans. It is possible if you mix your lacquer. I use yellow, amber, light red mahogany, dark red mahogany, weak black, and stong black from the center to the outside. That's only 4 colors of tint with different strengths.

One tough thing about sunbursts is that they are truly ugly when you are spraying the colors on. It's hard to tell if you will have a good burst until several coats of clear are on it. I keep working with the amber and light red until I get a good blend between the center and the outer area.

Hope this helps.
Author:  guitarjtb [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:40 pm ]
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John, that is a great looking burst. Nice guitar.
Author:  James Orr [ Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:54 am ]
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Thank you, James. You have no idea how comforting it is to hear that
they're ugly for others, too. I love your bursts, btw. I'm going to try
spraying up.
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