I dont quite agree it was some smuck Hesh, I think it was some shmoe ... slightly brighter than a smuck, at least in these parts ...
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| Author: | JasonAnthony [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:37 am ] |
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Hi guys. have bent my sides on the L-0 and they are waiting in my mold. I was wanting to know about side bracing. I have seen on some Collings and Santa Cruz guitars some side braces. I also know that Old Martins used strips of Fabric glued to the sides. What are your coments on both ways? The man who is teaching me uses fabric strips. I am goin to use them because he is teaching me and I plan to do what he suggests for this first build. What are the uses and advantages of both ways? |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:20 pm ] |
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I dont quite agree it was some smuck Hesh, I think it was some shmoe ... slightly brighter than a smuck, at least in these parts ...
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:46 pm ] |
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Having studied with Al, I know there's value in using the tape for sure. Kevin Ryan, who doesn't use any side reinforcement IIRC, once told me that tape would be fine but that he would never use solid braces on the sides. His logic is that they have the potential to exert force if they expand differently than the sides do, whereas the tape doesn't move and so can only provide support. I do like the look of the solid braces, but on my instruments it'll only be tape. |
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| Author: | Kelby [ Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:33 pm ] |
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You occasionally hear someone speculating about the dangers of wooden side braces, but you never actually hear about a guitar that really developed those problems. Bob Benedetto used solid side braces on his guitars, and I have never heard that they had a problem. I use wooden side braces because I built my first guitar from the Benedetto book and that's what he used. They're easy to install, and if you take a few extra minutes to chamfer the edges, etc., they add a nice decorative element. I'm sure the tape works just as well; whether it looks as nice is a matter of personal taste (my personal taste says the tape looks horrible compared to a nicely trimmed mahogany brace, but that's just me). As for the question of whether you really need side braces, here's my story. Once I have my sides bent and inserted in a mold, I like to clamp the bottom edge of the mold in my workbench vise so I can install the kerfing and linings with the body "standing up". (I find that if I install the linings with the guitar body lying down, the extra glue drips down onto the sides; when the body mold is standing up in the vice, gravity isn't working against you.) Well, on my last two builds, my 2-1/2 year old daughter wanted to come out in the shop to help. She decided to help by turning the vice. Both times, the guitar crashed to the floor in the mold. Both times, the side linings had not yet been installed. Both times, I had to repair a crack that went 3/4 of the way up the sides. If the side linings had been in place, the crack would have stopped at the first brace, and the repair would have been much easier. Now, my daughter and I have a new arrangement that eliminates the problem with the vice. However, the experience has confirmed for me that the risk of lenthy side cracks from accidental drops is real, and that side braces are well worth the fifteen or twenty minutes and $0.50 worth of wood it takes to use them. |
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| Author: | charliewood [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:09 am ] |
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I recently noticed in the Kinkeade book that he used spruce for the side braces - but interestingly in the phot I saw the spruce was carved into a sort of mini brace (carved fin style the way that an Xbrace or tonebar would be carved)- it looked neat as hell but I would have no idea how this would impact the sound at all. Has anyone toyed with this idea, or played a Kinkeade even? Just wondering about the concept, which as I said is visually- very cool Cheers Charliewood |
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| Author: | Bill Greene [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:27 am ] |
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On my first build, a kit, my teacher insisted I use side braces through the kerfing. The photo shows my fairly feeble attempt. It was aggravating, but perhaps worth it. 
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:02 am ] |
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If I were using side braces, I'd be sure to inlet them into the kerfing, to keep the ends from peeling up. Either that, or I'd shave them away to nothing, so they could flex with the side. I'm uncomfortable with the ones in Bill Greene's photo; perhaps wrongly so. I know, from measuring it, that the tapes, put on with hide glue, at least double the amount of force it takes to crack the side. I also know, from experience, that they will stop a crack. Probably properly done braces are stronger, but, in my book, anything that puts a crack in the side of the guitar is abuse, and people should not be abusing their guitars. It's very hard to say much about the contribution of the sides to the sound of the guitar. I suspect that they can be important on the smaller instruments, such as the Baroque ones, where the sides have almost as much surface as the top. On modern guitars it seems to me that the top is about 80% of the sound, and most of the rest, maybe 15%, comes from the back. That doesn't leave much for the neck and sides. |
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| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:17 pm ] |
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I have a roll of 500 feet of that very nice brown herringbone ribbon that Martin used for so many years. I had it given to me by Mike Longworth and it was a roll from the 50s. I've used light Spruce side braces on sides that are exceptionally light and flexible, but prefer the ribbon for its light weight and unlimited flexibility, bit also for its ability to stop the progress of a crack in a side. The application of the style of braces that Bob Benedetto uses on his archtops with the ends cut to the same taper as the kerfed linings isn't something that we'd want to use on our flat topped guitars. First, because our sides are about twice as wide as those of an archtop and the braces would add too much mass and weight at that length. Secondly, the top and backs are presentng completely different behavior on our flat tops than those of an archtop. I'd advise using some sort of side bracing, but keeping them as light and flexible as possible at the same time. If you choose not to, the likelihood of a side crack issue to be covered under your warranty is small so it shouldn't be the deciding factor for you. Regards, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars |
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