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| nitrocellulose lacquer http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=12490 |
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| Author: | KenH [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:17 am ] |
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I was at one of the box stores this weekend and came across "Cabot's Brushing Lacquer". At a closer look, I discover that it is nitrocellulose lacquer. Is all lacquer nitrocellulose? Has anybody used this stuff or something similar for Guitars? The reason I am asking is because I have been using the stringed instrument lacquer from StewMac and it generally runs around $15/quart plus shipping (which is high because it is a controlled substaqnce). The Cabot's lacquer is around $8/quart and is readily available from most box stores. There may be othe4r lacquers available from other box stores, but I havent explored this yet.
What is the difference in lacquers and will this give the same results as what I have been using? |
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| Author: | JB Dickey [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:31 am ] |
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Hodges, The lacquer is less volatile because it does not have the VOC's required to be sprayed. The excessive VOC's of regular spray Nitro is part of what makes it so dangerous. I use McFadden's and got it from a distributor in quart cans. I don't remember the price. Others use some off the local shelf stuff, like Parks or other brand for spraying. It works too. The formulation for McFadden's is one of the best and has changed over the years adding more plasticizers I understand to keep from age cracking. You might be able to take brushable lacquer and cut it with lacquer thinner and retarder and come up with a great product. Unfortunately, your guitars become the guinea pigs for your attempts at self formulation. You can always strip them and try something else, I suppose. I went with the tried and true, just to avoid the learning curve. Sylvan has used another brand called Mohawk and swears by it. I've enjoyed spraying McFaddens but have used Parks successfully too. Good luck. This is a part of craft mastery in itself.... |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:34 am ] |
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I'm not a finishing expert but I do know that there certainly are different types of lacquer. There is acrylic, water based and nitrocellulose lacquer. Here is a good quick read on the differences in lacquers. There are many other places to get lacquer, try Mohawk finishing and scroll down the list till you find the distributors in Florida, maybe there is one close to you. They sell a great lacquer that many guitar builders use (I use it too). Mohawk classic instrument lacquer (which is made by Behlan's I believe) Here's a link to mohawk classic instrument lacquer Hope this helps |
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| Author: | JimWomack [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:00 am ] |
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Well, not all lacquer is nitrocellulose, but it is suprising what actually is. Any of you guys build balsa model airplanes as a kid? Nitrate dope is nothing more than nitrocellulose lacquer. I used it to finish a "beater" guitar last summer... something I could take camping, to the beach, etc. I can't tell the difference between it and McFaddens, Behr, etc. It's been a year since I finished it and it's held up very well considering the abuse it's endured. A close cousin is cellulose acetate lacquer, also known as butyrate dope. Might try it next, who knows. I still have a quart and a half of McFaddens laying around so that may wait. BTW, the dopes that I used are maufacured by Randolph... they service the General Aviation crowd and their products are manufactured to FAA specs. |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:49 am ] |
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I think the main difference in instrument lacquers and furniture grade lacquers is the amount of 'flex' the cured finish has. The look might be the same, but furniture lacquer will not weather season changes and the contractions of a guitar as well as the furniture grade stuff. Now it might take a while before the differences are apparent. I'm also inclined to think that furniture nitro will not let the guitar vibrate as freely as its harder than the instrument grade finish, but these are just my musings and I have absolutely no facts or information to substantiate my claims... Rod is right. Mohawk is the same as Behlens. They're from the same parent company, RPM Finishes Group (as is Star, CCI and Guardian). I know Tony Karol uses Mohawk's and he seems to love the stuff. I've used it for my latest and I couldn't be happier with the performance as well. I've managed to find a distributor in Ottawa that doesn't require me to open a merchants acount like Richelieu did... Hope this helps. |
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| Author: | KenH [ Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:44 pm ] |
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Thanks for the advice ! I actually called Cabot's today and spoke with one of their chemists who informed me that their product was not suitable for instruments. He went into a lenghty explanation as to why this was so, but the bottom line is that they advise not to use it. One of the reasons was the same as stated above, with instrument grade nitro having some extra elastic polymers in it to help keep the finish from checking with exposure to heat and humidity....mainly heat. Thanks also for the pricing suggestions listed above! Looks like I can do a LOT better than what I have been doing for my lacquer! Ken |
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| Author: | Mark Maquillan [ Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:53 am ] |
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I made the mistake of buying a nitro product locally for my second guitar. The whole thing was a disaster and part of it was the finish. It was a furniture grade product and it was very hard when cured. I dinged an edge and it chipped very bad. It was evident there was not much flexibility.  I guess thats how we learn.
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