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Laminate Router/Bindings
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=12530		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  slackkeymike [ Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:40 pm ]
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I suppose I have read enough about binding cutting...but still unsure. Whats the best tool/jig that is general purpose (will work on many bodies)? That jig from blues creek? Can a dremel rig work? Just looking for advice.

Mike
Author:  KenH [ Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:51 pm ]
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I personally just use the laminate trimmer with the little bearing wheel that comes with it. This is something that someone could show you how to do, but trying to describe it would take a book. It is fairly easy and foolproof when you know the trick though.


With that being said, the attachment that blues creek sells cuts out ALL of the confusion and gives you a worry free channel for your bindings. If I didnt know the trick, I would definitely look into buying one. StewMac also sells a trimmer attachment that looks like it would work pretty good also.
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:04 pm ]
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dremels are underpowered for the task. it can be done, but it is lobourious and irksome, requiring several passes and offering multiple opportunities to err.

just using a guide bearing on a lam trimmer is much the same with regard to opportunity to err.

a jig which holds the trimmer and references off the side and the top is much better. there are numerous examples shown elsewhere on the forum.

i've built several over the years, but the best i've used is the williams version of the fleishman jig shown in the tools and jigs section at the top of the page. it is just about as close to foolproof as you can get and is fairly simple to build and a snap to use.
Author:  Ricardo [ Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:10 pm ]
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Mike, I have the Rigid 2400 laminate trimmer.  It came with a bearing follower that I use for bindings.  With it you can use a downcut bit and adjust the follower for depth of cut.  That way you don't need to fiddle with all the bearings that the luthier suppliers sell. Rich
Author:  slackkeymike [ Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:23 pm ]
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Thanks! I like the rigid one also...gonna take a look tomorrow.

Mike
Author:  Colin S [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:54 am ]
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Yes, W/F rig is the way to go. I don't like the bearing to be mounted on the cutter though, prefering to use on mounted on the trimmer (had a bearing jam on a cutter and burn the side badly). So Dave White designed a modification to the W/F rig incorporating a second lazy susan bearing that the trimmer is mounted on so that the trimmer itself can revolve to keep the bearing perpendicular to the side of the guitar. This rig gives me the best binding ledges I have ever had. The advantage is that you can use a 1/4" downcut spiral bit for clean cutting.









Colin
Author:  Colin S [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:55 am ]
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Sorry about the last picture size, unfortunately I'm not allowed to edit it smaller.

Colin
Author:  Bill Greene [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:13 am ]
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I'm in the Williams/Fleischman camp as well. I've fiddled with an original LMI jig (used it once), and a homeade jig that was sort of a combination of a Williams trapezoid, and an Ribbecke jig, but used a follower guide and both of them worked with a little finessing. But to be honest, it wasn't the best, and it wasn't simple.

The last bindings I installed were done with the W/F jig, identical to what Hesh showed above and honestly, if the bindings are bent to shape, you can glue them in in about 20 minutes.
Author:  slackkeymike [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:24 am ]
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Where are the plans?

Mike
Author:  D Stewart [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:50 am ]
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Wow, Colin. Very neat modification.    Looks to be very much the best of both styles. Is that an easy mod or was there a great deal of fabrication?

Good to see you Hesh!

Donovan
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:39 am ]
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mike, there is ample visual information for reverse engineering and building the jig in the jigs section. it is really very simple. it has to be, for even i was able to do it. there were plans available at one time, but i don't know if that is still the case. perhaps someone can enlighten us.

colin, i think david's modification to allow the use of a router mounted as opposed to the bit mounted bearing is rather clever. i think i have seen some mention of it before but your photo is the first i've seen of its implementation.

but my binding bit/bearing set from tracy is a down shear cut bit, and to my eye gives just as clean a cut as the spirals i used before and doesn't require the setup time a separate follower bearing does. fortunately, and i would like to claim it is because of my superior preventative maintenance but my nose would grow very long so fortunately must remain the operative word, i've not had the adverse experience of the bearing seizing and burning a side. all of which just means i'd better step up my preventative maintenance efforts or i, and my side, will eventually get burnt.
Author:  Colin S [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:40 am ]
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Mike, the plans as such are available on Don Williams' website. He gives dimensions and instructions. Look here, all the information you need to build one:

Don Williams' instructions

Donovan, the modification is all Dave White's idea it is exceptionally elegant in conception and easy to make, (I did it!), look here for the details on Dave's website

Dave's trimmer base modification

Colin
Author:  psl53 [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:15 am ]
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With the help of John Hall and Don Williams I modified the jig a bit and it has worked out well. Oh Don, I haven't forgotten about the wood it will take me some time to get around to it.



Thanks


Peter
Author:  Ricardo [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:38 am ]
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What a fancy beer holder! It can follow you around the shop!
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:16 am ]
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yes, indeed a most intelligent and utilitarian modification of a great design to give it renewed purpose in the support and inspiration of luthiers everwhere.

i would, however, suggest a further slight addition, to wit, the can/bottle holder obviously needs insulation.
Author:  psl53 [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:40 am ]
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You guys are always thunking!!!!!


Peter
Author:  John How [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:31 am ]
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Colin, Very nice looking jig ya got there. I assume you have to keep it aligned with the bearing and router bit 90° to the side as you move around. Is that a problem at all or just something to be learned, or am I missing something?
Author:  Dave White [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:02 am ]
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[QUOTE=John How] Colin, Very nice looking jig ya got there. I assume you have to keep it aligned with the bearing and router bit 90° to the side as you move around. Is that a problem at all or just something to be learned, or am I missing something?[/QUOTE]

John,

Keeping it at 90 degrees to the side is very easy - no big deal. Dialling in the different widths with the router depth setting takes some time but it is very versatile and you can use one router bit for all of your binding and purfling cuts and can use any "non standard" depths as well. Changing router bits takes time too and having to have one for every depth of cut you need to make can be expensive.

I use this jig for cutting headstock binding channels and when I have done heelcap binding too.
Author:  Colin S [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:28 am ]
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John, it's important of course to have everything set up square as with any format of the W/F jig. And of course ensure that the guitar body sides are perpendicular to the base. After that it's simple, just ensure contact for bearing and doughnut and job done. I always test cut with a test block at 3 or 4 points around the guitar's position.

I absolutely love this jig, I couldn't use a W/F jig until Dave came up with this modification, I will be forever in his debt (not literally Dave, just metaphorically!)

Colin
Author:  Ricardo [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:20 am ]
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But do you want to keep it 90 degrees to the side.  How does it handle a sloping side?
Author:  slackkeymike [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:25 pm ]
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Colin, Hesh, (et al) thamkyou for the links and such. Gonna be studying that extra degree of freedom on the Colins jig...

Mike
Author:  Michael Lloyd [ Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:28 pm ]
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I like Blues Creek's binding jig. It's easy to set-up and use, has a small foot print and is easily stored when not in use. For the price it's a great deal!



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