Official Luthiers Forum!

Hesh, I haven't been keeping up lately, I'm really in the dark here. However, AH MAN! Isn't there a way you can stay and not abandon your values? I was going to say that I usually will click on a thread if I see your name,but now that I'm writing this, it seems a bit selfish. I'm just reading your post, but instead of feeling disrespected,can't you just ignore the invitations for reengaging? I will see if I can find the thread that's behind all of this,as if it matters now,I just hate to see this. Know this: I've been inspired,informed and entertained by your quotes,by your observations and I will truly miss them and you. Clinton

Best wishes Hesh. Please do let me know if I can ever help ya out in anyway.    
Hate to see ya go, but sometimes life is that way,..fair or not. Blessings to
you and yours.

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

Maybe my outlook is too simplistic, but why the heck can't forums like this stick to luthiery and nothing else.  I even have a Republican friend, but we both know better than to talk politics and we get along fine with our other common interests.

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A higher purpose for wood.
Rich Smith
Issaquah, WA

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sweat the small stuff.

I agree with what the others have said, Hesh. I'm going to miss you.
Yesterday I looked for that thread in the archive and wanted to PM you
but figured you were burried under them already. I was going to wait for
a week or so.

It's hard because so often we know the definition of a word, but not the
social context surrounding it. I don't know if that was the case, but I
wouldn't be surprised. And I wouldn't ask you to apologize for being
strongly effected either way.

Before you go, I'd like you to know that the hide glue is working to fill
those binding gaps    

Is there any way you can PM me your email info so that I can keep
sending you pics?

Hesh,

I will sincerely miss you here on the forum but respect your decision.
You were always there to offer me tips and advice during my trials of this
fine art, and usually first to reply with congratulations on the strides of
progress I've made.

I too would like to stay in touch if you would be so kind to PM me your
address. I'm only three or so hours away and would like to make the trip
over sometime for a visit.

Best regards and well wishes my friend,
Chris

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Christopher C. Cordle
North Muskegon, MI

http://www.yardsaleunderwear.com
http://www.facebook.com/christopher.cordle

I cant believe this is happening!!!! and I dont think your going to be talked out of this,.. this time around - My heart sinks -
Its all because of a comment that was made in ignorance, and because of the serious conotations of the statement, peoples live have been disrupted.
I think that highdraw offered the apology Hesh because the statement he made was sort of a literary reference or "witicism", that was made in extremely poor taste and without sensitivity... but I think highdraw really feels bad, not only because he made you feel terrible and offended your religion and ancestry, but that he is now being labelled an anti-semite... which he firmly denies.
Hesh I cant even begin to understand the DEEP DEEP feelings of sorrow and lingering loss you must feel because of the horrible events of the past and specifically within your geneology... these reminders of the ultimate barbarity humans can inflict upon one another are sickening.
I do understand that mabye these feelings may be adding color this situation.
If highdrawlicks sincerely doesnt harbour any hatred for you or other Jews, and as he stated is genuinely remorseful for saying what he did, in passing, as a quip between him and his friend Loren (which I was unaware) as poorly tasteful as it was, couldnt you forgive?
Please note I am asking you Hesh and not pressuring you to accept any apology.
I hope you would Hesh..... I think it was a horrible thing that transpired... You feel disgusted!
and he is genuinely sorry for saying it... and feels incredibly ashamed and embarassed for being labelled an anti-semite also.
I could only imagine how that must feel if it were not true also.
What a MESS - Im truly sorry for my part, in sticking up for Loren, when I felt that Loren, a new member here, was being unjustly accused for something they hadnt said... when in fact highdraw and Loren were actually friends making inside jokes, masking literary references with one another.
Now instead of welcoming one member we are losing 3
How sad..
Your one of my favorite people here HESH!!!
I cant imagine this place without you...
I REALLY hope you change your mind and remain with us
                Freind!!!!!
We love you bud, and you are a brother to us!
Cheers
Charliewood

Hesh,

I sure hate to see you go. I would just like to say Thank You for all the help that you have provided to me during my first build and Thank You for putting together all of the tutorials that you did. You have really contributed a lot to this forumn and it will definitely be different with you gone. I am also one of those that would usually click on a post just because it had your name. Keep that web site of yours up to date because I'd love to check in every once in a while and see what you're up to. You will be missed by many.

Take care my friend,

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Thanks,
Blain

http://www.ullrichguitar.com

"89.67% of all statistics are made up on the spot."

Hey Hesh,

I have an idea.

How about if you simply say "No, I don't accept the apology. Period. Move on."

Why should you leave? That would be like leaving YOUR home town because some idiot peed on the sidewalk.

You know, there are all kinds of people here, just as there all kinds of people in your home town. In fact, I can just about guarantee there are anti-Semites in your home town, because there is a sprinkling of every type of person and personality in every home town. So, honestly, would you leave your home town if you heard an anti-Semitic remark? Of course not. With over 6000 posts here, this IS your cyber-home town, where you can "be true to [your] beliefs and values".

Step over the puddle, and let's see your current guitar (unless its a dreadnaught with a sunburst - kidding!)

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

Hesh:

I have tried to stay out of this whole thing, because I do not know you very well, and because it is such a personal issue.  I do, however, agree with Dennis.

You are a proud person, proud of your heritage, proud of your family, proud of who you are.  Leaving is like throwing the child out with the bath water.  For the thoughtlessness on the part of one individual, and maybe a few others for pushing the subject when it should have been dropped, you are going to leave?  I don't understand.  I thought you were proud of your heritage - proud of who you are.  How can you be that person of strength, that you show in every post and in your personal remarks, if you can't stand in the face of an insensitive  remark, even if it is racist, whether by design or by accident.  This is your place, where your friends are, where people who care about you are.  Step up and stare the stare the evil one in the face.  You know you are above all of this, and it will make a hole in your life.

Now, do what you have to do.

I hope I have not offended you in any way, but I just think you are stronger than this.  Yes, I would miss you too, but it isn't about me.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

[QUOTE=Hesh1956]
I have received a great deal of pressure to accept an apology that I will not accept nor does it need to be accepted. For some of us there are issues pertaining to heritage, family, values, country, and friendships that they consider to be rather sacred. My belief is that a man or a woman has to stand for something at times and that they cannot possibly be true to themselves if they permit themselves to simply drop their values and ….get with the program.

[/QUOTE]

People make mistakes. When they are called on their mistakes, examine what they have done, realize they are wrong and issue an apology for their mistake, it is an opportunity for many people to learn from the mistake.

There are many people who have never heard the word that was used , or if they had heard it, did not fully understand the meaning. I had never heard it before and had no idea what it meant. And that's coming from a guy who is married to a Jewish woman, grew up in a town of mostly Jewish residents and attended a high school in which 65% of the student body is Jewish.

It's a shame to me that instead of using this as an opportunity to broaden knowledge and increase sensitivity, some have chosen to stand for a principle and reject any apology.

Jim

You don't drop by for a few weeks, and return to a sea of confusion....

I have no clue what happened, and I suspect the source material's been edited away, but whatever it was, it sure sucks to see someone leave like this.

Hesh, may you keep on building, and if you do decide to stay aay (I sure hope not), I do hope to see you on one of the other forums out there...

I meant to add this to my previous message but could not because there is no edit function.

I just wonder how many of us have ever used terms that are rooted in ethnic stereotypes. For example, have any of you ever used the term "welsh on a bet?" Well, as someone of Welsh descent, that is an insult to me.

The point is that many of us use ethnic stereotypes and slurs ev eyday without realizing we are doing so. When that occurs, use the opportunity to explain the slur and increase awareness of it.

Jim

I'm Really sad to see you go Hesh.You have helped so many here with your advice and tutorials.I will really miss your humor too! I hope to meet you in person sometime ,somewhere my friend! You have my email so keep in touch and I respect your decision but I do hope to see you back here sometime.

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Anderson Guitars
Clearwater,Fl. 33755

I goto Peru for two weeks and come back to this! Blah! Hesh, I have appreciated your advice through what I've done so far. I'll miss that and I'll refer to your stuff as I find more stupid stuff to ask questions about. I hate to see you leave and do wish you'd reconsider. Take care out there.

Words fail me.

Shalom, Hesh.

sad to see you go Hesh.,,,,hopefully you will come back

I don't know what this is all about but the way I look at this forum is that I am not interested in engaging or reading any topic that is not about guitar building....hence I don't go to any other room other than the main discussion room....And I also don't care about other peoples view's on life because there will always be disagreements there...but I do respect everyones views on this artform no matter whether its a first build or a seasoned veteran. Its one of the things that we really have in common and are passionate about. Enough so that we want to learn and to share and post our experiences so others may hopefully see or read something that helps them....and thats a great thing.
This is all it is about for me. Nothing else matters.
Its easy really....don't enter into any other conversation.
Good luck with where you go with your building Hesh....because from what I've seen its a class act...and thanks for everything.

...ahhhh, jeez oo wheez... WOW! I mean WOW!!!

Been around here a few years now - hardly ever post. Gotta say - I'm shocked - SO VERY TOTALLY SHOCKED - and - COMPLETELY AMAZED by all of this - on so many, many different levels. Who would have thought something like this would have ever even been possible????

All of us will miss your participation on the forum - all three of you.

And what do you learn from something like this? Some things ...just are what they are. Ain't no figurin' it out, just go on. Can't get mad about it. Man, what a shame.

We're all a bunch of losers today.

I saddly agree Tony, we are all losers in this. Hesh, my friend, you will be missed as will your dog, Sony. I would hope you would change your mind and stay. There are some very valid points in this thread to that effect. It is your choice to forgive or not, accept the apology or not. That is a given. I think it is also a given that the vast majority of the members here wish for you to stay. Your absence is our loss, if I may be so selfish.

I am so sorry you have been pressured to accept an apology that you can not accept. Do what you must to maintain your integrity. Only you can set that criteria for yourself. I would hope that in a few days this will all settle down, lessons will have been learned, and we could all resume civil lutherie. Regardless of your future here, may God continue to bless you.
Donovan

[Quote=DennisLeahy]Why should you leave? That would be like leaving YOUR home town because some idiot peed on the sidewalk.[/QUOTE]

Hesh....I am with a few others on this. I don't understand how you leaving solves anything? Your positive impact on so many will stop all because someone said something in poor taste?

Best of luck...you will be missed.

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Brad
Avon, OH

Hesh, I agree with the above...I didn't see the offending post and am in the dark, but I (sadly) can imagine...and after having a day to think this over I too come away feeling that whoever would write a word like that (it DOES require some degree of aforethought to type and send) should be the person to leave the forum NOT you! You were the first to write me after the thing about Serge and faith and I really was blessed by what you had to say...now, I know that you are a man of principles as am I and I'm being a bit selfish in asking you to reconsider leaving...but I DO wish you'd reconsider...after all, a very wise man once said to love our enemies and those who would speak against us....if you do leave, please keep my email and keep in touch...I consider you a good friend whom I haven't met! Let's talk guitars every so often!

Shalom aleichem!

Larry

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

I'm at a loss for words here, and that is not a common thing. I feel like I have made a life long friend and he is moving away. You will be missed here Hesh.

Your Friend,

Ken

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Reguards,

Ken H

Hesh,
I am sorry to see you go. While I don't post too often, I probably peek at the forum almost every day and feel like I know those of you who post much more fequently than I.
I've enjoyed seeing you learn to build a pretty fine guitar over the last few years maybe even offered a tip to help you learn, I don't know. Keep up the good work and I hope you'll consider joining us again sometime in the future.
Take care my friend,
Jim

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Hesh,
I fully understand your position. You know how I feel. I don't mind confrontation when values are at stake. I will stay. No one has the right to advance the idea of an apology other than the abuser; and the abused has the soul right to accept or reject.
The true core of a person is exposed when such comments are made.
When people accept, ignore or avoid confronting such language small inroads are made by the zealots of other ideologies and in time larger conflicts arise.
If you forget or are uneducated as to the events of the past you are destined to repeat them.
What if someone early on had put a stop to the ethic rantings of Hitler.

Keep in touch.

Dean

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Dean