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Inlaying Ebony??
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=12668		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Colby Horton [ Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:06 am ]
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Hey

I have a question about inlaying ebony. I have a customer that is inquiring about having an intricate inlay done around the soundhole. He is wanting it done with ebony. Is it possible? I have never really thought much about doing intricate inlays with wood, most people want shell. I'm asking because if it is possible I might be willing to give it a try, but when I really think about it, it almost seems impossible. By the way, when I say intricate I mean lots of tiny stems, vines, and sharp points. Any info on this subject would be greatly appreciated.
Author:  PaulB [ Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:48 am ]
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You might be able to save yourself some work by excavating for the inlay and just fill it with black epoxy, or CA and ebony sanding dust.

It'd look the same, save you cutting tiny pieces of ebony, and be hard to spot the difference.
Author:  old man [ Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:36 pm ]
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I've inlaid ebony into another hardwood with good results but, personally, I can't cut a clean enough recess to try a regular inlay in a softwood top. Dust getting in the spruce will be the biggest problem, I think, so follow what Hesh said above and shellac well around the area. Also, if you're going to use CA, shellac inside the cut out area, too.
I just finished inlaying an ebony rosette into a lutz top and learned this: Scrape to level and sand as little as possible. You can sand with 100 grit without much problem but even 180 tended to make dust particles fine enough to work into the spruce grain. I did 100 and it was going well, tried 180 and had black streaks, went back to 100 and it cleaned up fine. I stopped there for the time being. After I get the box closed, I will try to carefully sand the area around the inlay with finer grits.

Hope this helps. There whould be other responses coming from folks much more experienced than me.

Ron
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:55 pm ]
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I'd recommend against using anything but actual ebony for the inlay on grounds of looks. I've seen the alternatives used by some pros whose names I won't mention, and the result has not been a pass for wood in either case.

I would only want to inlay a top with anything intricate if the inlay and pockets matched perfectly. If I didn't have the CNC, I'd try making routing templates, or have them made. Any small error in the pockets is going to show up on spruce, so you'd need to have it machined, make templates, or be a real surgeon with a Dremel handpiece.
Author:  Colby Horton [ Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:18 am ]
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Thanks for the info.

The shellac sounds like a good idea. I'm really not as much worried about the black dust and gaps right now as much as I am about just cutting something like this out of ebony wood. Anybody have any experience cutting intricate inlays out of ebony?
Author:  old man [ Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:16 am ]
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Colby, if it's small I would use a jewelers saw, just as in cutting pearl. Ebony isn't that hard to cut. On larger pieces I use my scroll saw with a spiral blade that lets you cut in any direction without having to turn the wood so much. I cut all these butterflies out on my scroll saw.




I've done ebony butterflies for inlaying on the top of jewelery boxes the same way.

Ron
Author:  charliewood [ Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:47 am ]
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Ive seen the luthier extrordinaire Boaz Elkayam do very finicky work of ebony inlay into just about any surface on a guitar youd want to - the guy is simply amazing - I sure wish we cxould lure him here on a regular basis!
Here are a few threads featuring his work, perhaps he could give you a few pointers if you contacted him.....
http://luthiersforum.3element.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID= 7202&KW=Boaz#forumTop

http://luthiersforum.3element.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID= 7204&KW=Boaz#forumTop

http://luthiersforum.3element.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID= 7205&KW=Boaz#forumTop

But really THIS is the thread with the guitar that made me think of him

http://luthiersforum.3element.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID= 6249&KW=Boaz#forumTop

Just incredible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thats AMAZING ebony inlay into a top!! and mabye along the lines of what your friend wants?
Hope` this points you in a helpful direction.
Cheers
Charliewood
Author:  Colby Horton [ Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:01 am ]
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Charliewood, thank you for the picture! This is exactly the kind of thing my customer is wanting around the soundhole. This is the first time I have seen an ebony inlay of this detail into a top. That Luthier is incredible!

Old Man, how thick are those butterfly inlays? I'm wondering how strong ebony would be when thinned down thin enough to inlay into a top. If it's too fragile it seems it wouldn't hold together for a vine.
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:45 am ]
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You can thin it down to 0.1" and have it still be stiff enough to support itself easily. 0.05", the thickness of a lot of MOP inlay, and it'll be fragile but it'll hold together so long as you don't try to pick it up by the end or something.
Author:  old man [ Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:12 pm ]
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[QUOTE=Colby Horton] Charliewood, thank you for the picture! This is exactly the kind of thing my customer is wanting around the soundhole. This is the first time I have seen an ebony inlay of this detail into a top. That Luthier is incredible!

Old Man, how thick are those butterfly inlays? I'm wondering how strong ebony would be when thinned down thin enough to inlay into a top. If it's too fragile it seems it wouldn't hold together for a vine.[/QUOTE]


Colby, the larger ones are about 3/16" because that chest top has a 30" radius on it. For flat inlays I would probably make them 1/16 to 1/8 depending on how intricate the sawing will be. You can always make it thick and scrape it level. Unless the cut is really complex, though, I think 1/16 to 3/32" could be handled without a problem.

Ron
Author:  old man [ Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:15 pm ]
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Also, Colby, with ebony, even if the piece breaks you can put it back together with CA and it will be invisible.

Ron
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