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USL Ultima woes
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=12713		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  SniderMike [ Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:31 am ]
Post subject: 
I've been spraying Target's USL waterbase lacquer on my latest electric,
and although I like it so far, I have run into a few problems.

I've had what appear to be witness lines, even though it's supposed to
have 100% burn in. I am pretty sure this is due to the fact that I sprayed a
few times when it was much hotter out than it should have been, and I let
it cure in my super-hot garage between coats. Has anyone else
experienced this? Could it be anything else?

Also, a warning to all who use USL: Do not use Novus #2 for final
polishing. It does something to react with the finish and leaves little
rings. #1 and #3 seem to be harmless however.

So, what do other USL users (if there are any here) use for hand polishing?
I buff out on the buffer with menzerna compounds, but I can't reach into
the cutaway so I need to hit that area by hand.

Thanks
Author:  davidmor [ Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
I use micromesh all the way through 12000 grit, then Macguires swirl remover and polish.  I am not sure why you got witness lines, but I have sprayed and cured in my second floor non-airconditioned shop where temps get over 100 degrees for curing (up to the high 80's when spraying) and haven't had any problems. The only issues I have ever had with it is by my own over-zelous sanding.    I live in upstate NY, and if I waited for perfect temps for finishing, all of my guitars would still be in the white.

Hopefully someone else will chime in with some answers as to what could have happened.
Author:  SniderMike [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:55 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks David. Maybe I'll give the micromesh a try. I did find something
on the Target forum about someone having problems using water as a
lubricant when rubbing out and getting witness-like lines. Glad to know
you've had success in the heat too.

By the way, what part of upstate are you in? I'll be moving to Rochester
next year.
Author:  Don Williams [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Upstate? Where? I'm originally from central NY myself, but I have to say "upstate" or people think I'm from NYC.
Mike, Rochester is in "Western" NYS.
You'll be fairly close to the Zootman - lucky you, and poorer you.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes I have heard of water induced witness lines from using water as your sanding lube but have not seen them.
My only issue with target USL (same as StewMas Color tone) was the blue cast to the film. I have been using KTM9 for several years now. It has no noticeable blue cast and seem to me to burn in better, but I never had issues with USL burning in.

As far as a non water lube you could use K1 kerosene though it has some real fire hazord associated with it but works well.

I dont personally think you wuld have issues with distilled water and soap
Author:  davidmor [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:30 am ]
Post subject: 
I am in Geneseo, about 20 miles directly south of Rochester.  I am a little over an hour from the Zootman.  I haven't visited him yet, but plan on trying to make a trip next time I need to get some wood.

I tried using water to wet sand on my first guitar and it made a mess of things.  I had pore filled and coated with 14 thin sprayed layers of USL.  It cured for 3 weeks before I started to finish sand.  My pore filling wasn't perfect and the water got to the wood causing the finish to check and crack.  I had to sand it all off and start over.  From that point on, I have dry sanded all of my guitars.  It is a bit more work, and the paper loads up more often but it is safe and works well.  I swear by the micromesh stuff.  It is expensive but it really works.  I can get 3 guitars out of one kit that Woodcraft sells and I dry sand with it. 

Lots of people use Kerosene (clear) or mineral spirits to sand with.  I personally don't like using flammable and smelly stuff to sand with!

Author:  SniderMike [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:24 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Don Williams] Upstate? Where? I'm originally from central NY
myself, but I have to say "upstate" or people think I'm from NYC.
Mike, Rochester is in "Western" NYS.
You'll be fairly close to the Zootman - lucky you, and poorer you.
[/QUOTE]

Don, it doesn't even seem to matter out here in Denver if you say
"upstate," "western," or whatever. Everyone still thinks you're in the city.

Me: "I'm moving to Upstate New York"

Everyone: "Will you be living directly inside the Statue of Liberty?"

I don't think people know that NY is a state too. Anyway, I'm heading out
there tomorrow morning for a week.


Michael and David, thanks for the tips. I'm not opposed to using
kerosene if it helps, but maybe I'll try distilled water first instead of tap.
I also picked up some Abralon sanding pads that I'm going to try, and
some micro mesh. Thanks again.

Here's some pics (don't know why i didn't post these in the first place)


Author:  SniderMike [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:26 am ]
Post subject: 
Oh, by the way, Michael - I notice the bluish cast at first, but it really
seems to go away after a few days of curing. Or maybe I just get used to
it
Author:  davidmor [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hey Mike,

Are you in Denver and moving to the Rochester area?  You sound like me 7 years ago.  I lived in Parker most of my life and moved to the Rochester area.  Small world!

Oh, and I know exactly what you mean about everyone thinking that all of NY is NYC.  Everyone who comes to visit is very surprised that I live in farming country.
Author:  SniderMike [ Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
David, that's funny. Small world indeed! My wife is from the finger lakes
area, so we're moving to be closer to her family. Plus, we can actually
afford to buy a house out there. I'm a Denver native myself. How do
you like NY compared to CO?
Author:  davidmor [ Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:50 am ]
Post subject: 

[QUOTE=SniderMike]David, that's funny. Small world indeed! My wife is from the finger lakes

area, so we're moving to be closer to her family. Plus, we can actually

afford to buy a house out there. I'm a Denver native myself. How do

you like NY compared to CO?[/QUOTE]

Other than the rediculously high taxes, we love it here.  We left the Denver area simply because of how overcrowded it got.  I moved there in '69 as a kid and left in '00 because my small town of under 1,000 had blossomed to over 50,000.  All that in less than 10 years.  Last I read, the population was in the mid 80,000 range.  Way too much uncontrolled growth for my blood!

Funny you mention housing costs, when we moved here my first comment when I saw the prices of houses was "Wow!  They are giving houses away here!"  We got a house of the same sq footage, 3 acres of beautiful land, and two out buildings for less than half of what my little cookie cutter subdivision house cost in Parker.

Whoops, this thread got seriuosly off course didn't it.
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:13 am ]
Post subject: 
Mike...I used USL on 2 guitars and wet sanded using the standard water/soap solution. I used 320 through 12,000 MicroMesh.

How long after you sprayed did you start sanding? I wait 2-4 weeks with any finish and have never seen what you are showing. The longer wait provides that extra assurance that fhe finish is fully cured. IMO these finishes sand out much better the harder they are cured.

Also...like Michael...I abandoned this finish for the same blue cast reason. KTM-9 looks much better if you're going that route.
Author:  SniderMike [ Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hey guys. I'm writing from Branchport, NY, right now.      Just took a nice
boat ride on Kueka Lake.

David, I don't know how anybody can possibly afford a house in Denver.
That's probably why we're #1 in forclosures!

JJ, I waited just 1 week, but 3-4 days between spray sessions. I'll give these
latest coats a little longer to cure. Thanks for the tip.

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