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Slicing Rosette Logs by hand?
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=12806		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:39 am ]
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I have designed the central motif of my rosette, cut and sanded the veneer (should have been the other way around  ), and glued into a set of logs for each column of the graph.  Now, I need to slice off thin slices of each log, lengthwise, to make the final log with the design in the end of it.  I thought, easy, make a little jig, and cut with your Japanese saw.  Well, that didn't work, too much flexibility in the blade.  I don't have a lot to play with, so I need to cut with a narrow kerf.  I do not have a bandsaw, or a scroll saw.  Any thoughts as to a simple way to do this?  I have not ruled out buying a small bandsaw, or scroll saw, but not unless I have to.  Any suggestions on purchasing the right thing.  I don't think I'm ready for a larger bandsaw, even though I think I would love it.
Author:  Wayne Clark [ Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:10 am ]
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Waddy,

You didn't say what kind of Japanese saw you were using, but I have a dozuki that is a thin kerf backsaw. I got it at Woodcraft ("C" in the picture here: http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=850). Another option might be to make a little mitre box to hold the saw blade as you cut.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:51 am ]
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I have a dozuki, but it is visiting my son right now.  I was using a Marples dozuki look alike, I have used it a good bit, and it has the same idiosyncrasies.  I made a guide, but the blade wanted to drift off the edge of the wood in the middle.  It's really hard to hold everything together, hold the saw, and keep the little log from moving at all, and If you put too much pressure on the log, it'll bind the saw when you get down into it.  So far I have wasted one attempt, and don't get too many tries before I have to remake the log.  I guess I can try one of the others.  That would give me 11 tries at the first slice off each one, to find the best method.
Author:  Colin S [ Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:01 am ]
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Waddy this is the type of saw I use for rosette logs, known as a Gentleman's Saw, so it suits me!

I think mine runs at about a 10thou kerf, finer than the Japanese saws, it's slow but very stiff and accurate, I use a small mitre box for the log.

Gent's saw.

I guess most of your carpentry tool shops, Woodcraft?, should stock them. They come in a range of sizes.

The other choice would be the fret cutting saw from SM, if you want one with a pull action, though they have a wider kerf.

Colin



Colin
Author:  John How [ Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:30 am ]
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I would use a saw similar to what Colin suggests and make a special miter box that fit the log fairly snug or at least clamp the log to eliminate any unnecessary movement.
Author:  John Elshaw [ Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:34 am ]
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I've made and cut many rosette logs and what works best for me is my table saw. I use the thin kerf blade from my fret-slotting jig with the blade stiffeners in place. I made a simple cover where the blade sticks up from the table so there is no room for the pieces to fall back inside where the blade is spinning. The best part is that the blade cuts so even and smooth that there is virtually no sanding required before gluing up the next log. If I do have to sand, I just run them under the drill press real quick. My veneer logs are about 2 inches wide when I start cutting, but it's still a good idea to use a push stick. With this small blade there's only a little sticking up above the table, but don't be tempted to do it by hand.







Good luck!

John
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:25 am ]
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Thanks Colin, John and John.  I bought a Gent's saw at lunch, and will try that.  If I have too much trouble with that, I may order one of those thin kerf blades from Shane.  I didn't leave much room for error, because it is a new design, and I don't know how it is going to come out, so my logs are only a little over a half inch wide.  I thought I might stick the log to another board with double stick to help with holding.
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:12 am ]
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I've been using an X-Acto razor saw, which I get at the local hobby shop. It takes a thin kerf, and can be used to cut pearl if you have to.

The trick is not the saw, though, it's how you hold the log. Make a little miter box by super gluing a couple of pieces of hard wood a little taller than the height of your log to a piece of plywood. If the log is tapered then make the side pieces with the complimentary angle, and make sure the log _just_ fits in the box. You don't want to force it, but you don't want any slop either.

Once I have the side pieces on, I mark the box and make a cut with the saw. By keeping the pressure light, and watching it closely, you should be able to make the cut pretty wel perpendicular to the slot where the piece will go. If not, move down a little way a try again.

Once you have the guide slot cut, glue in a stop. This need not fill the space in fully, but just needs to be a solid stop. The advantage of cutting the saw slot first is obvious; you can mess it up a few times if you have to, and only worry about the stop after you've got it right, instead of having to throw out the whole thing because the saw slot came out wrong.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:23 am ]
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Alan, are you talking about cutting the tiles, or a strip off the length of the log.  I have a razor saw, but it seemed pretty short for what I was going to do.  Maybe I should have tried it.  I know it has a thin kerf.  I am cutting a strip off each of my first set of logs, to glue up the final log to cut tiles off of (participle ).
Author:  Shawn [ Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:07 pm ]
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A razor saw of any other thin kerf saw is still the best way to go in most cases.

The time spent building a rosette log, herringbone and other kinds of lines and ornamentation requires that you get as much as possible out of the log that you have built up. Sometimes the difference comes down to one more strip or tile but that may be all you need.
Author:  Michael Lloyd [ Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:30 pm ]
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I will build a small miter box to saw such small items. You can support the log with a shim along its length if necessary.

Something like this. It was harder to draw this picture than build the box.

Author:  Alan Carruth [ Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:05 am ]
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I'm talking about cutting tiles. You're building up a sandwich of wide slices of veneer, and then cutting a thin strip off that to make one layer of the tile. Now I understand. The only way I can think of to do that is to use a thin kerf blde on the table saw, and either practice and refine the setup until you get it right, or take somwaht thicker slices and dress things off.

I make my layers up out of narrow strips of veneer, not much wider than the layer will be tall, and dress them off to height using a plane jig. Iirc, Eugene Clark used a thicknesser made from a fixed scraper that you pulled the strips through. I suppose it would be possible to make a saw setup that would consistently make accurate thickness strips, but not with any saw I've ever had.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:17 am ]
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My frustration exactly, Alan.  Never give up though.  I plan on doublestick taping the log to a wider board, for holding purposes, and making a miter box wide enough to hold the log, with a long stop across the width.  Much like cutting tiles, but with a longer cut.  If that does not work, I'll think of something else, or buy a thin kerf table saw blade, or a small bench top band saw, maybe.
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