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DIY fret leveling file ?
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=12880		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:52 am ]
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I tried to buy myself a large flat rectangular file for leveling frets, but they all feel a bit warped, concave, convex, anything but dead straight.

Now, I have around here some marble tiles. they are 1" thick and very polished.  I could cut a piece, and glue wet/dry sandpaper to it. 

Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:05 am ]
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The only way to get a flat file is to buy a quality one from a supplier machine shop quality tools.  Nicholson comes to mind.  Mostly, you will not find quality ones at the Big Box Stores. 

However, your marble should work if it is, indeed, dead flat.  You could also buy an aluminum, square, tube, and flatten with your dead flat marble, and then put different grits on different sides (Not my idea, saw it in another post.)
Author:  old man [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:08 am ]
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That would work, Alex. Anything perfectly flat that you can stick paper to. So far all my FB's have a 16" radius, and I just use the aluminum radius bar from StewMac, and it gets them perfectly level with little chance of screwing up the radius.

Ron
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:26 am ]
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I actually hit POST before finishing to type up all i had to say  

I'll be needing it for classical necks, no radius. So i can cut it really wide and not worry about filing the trebles side more than the bass or viceversa.

The two sides ideea is nice, but the stuff i have is not polished on the back. I could do 3 separate "files". 320, 600, 1000 ?  That should finish them nicely and make the final polishing easier. 

I have a couple friends working in architecture, I'll ask where I can buy some high quality metal rulers (I also need a "T" type). These should help for a light bulb test.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:45 am ]
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The only disadvantage to 1" thick marble iis that you are going to get tired pushing it around.  It is a pretty heavy object.  12 x 3 x 1" piece has to weigh 5 lbs or so, but what do I know, I'm just a wimp. 

An aluminum one or even a hardwood block with a dead flat side would work fine.  Put some 80 grit on one of your marble tiles, take a piece of mahogany or maple ripped clean, and flatten one side on the sandpaper. Use self stick on that and level up.
Author:  Kristopher10 [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:16 am ]
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I went to a Big Box Store and got a scrap piece of glass from the window section, cut it to the dimension I wanted, dulled the edges (preventing any unwanted accidents), glued it to a piece of wood, and affixed a piece of stikit. Dead flat (I hope) and it won't warp.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:19 am ]
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Sew mack makes a persision grond aluminum tube that is flata as well and a fret leveling file on a maple mounted grip
Author:  Ricardo [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:27 am ]
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You can buy a Great Planes aluminum bar sander accurate to .008 over 44 inches for about $15 at hobby shops.  I  use an 11" one for doing my frets on ukuleles.
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:17 am ]
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Yes, it's very hard to find a really flat file. That's because they punch the teeth in when the steel is red hot, and then quench them. Since a file has to be harder than anything you might want to cut with it, they are not normally tempered, which would reduce the hardness, but that means that the usual warping from the quench is also still there. This is even true on Nicholsons, although they are often flatter (and have better steel, too!).

About all you can do is find a store that carries a good grade of file, and test them with a straightedge until you find a good one. Then DON'T USE IT FOR ANYTHING ELSE! I have a nice flat 10" file that I've used for frets only for over 25 years, and it still works well.

The problem with using abrasives to level the fretboard is that some of the grit inevitably gets embedded in the fret tops as you work, thanks to the copper content. Then when you file them round the grit chews up your fret file. I wore out my first fret rounding file in about three years because I used a stone to level frets. Since I got the file to level them I have not had to buy another rounding file.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:25 am ]
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So, Alan, what do you use, a Fine Mill Bastard?
Author:  TonyKarol [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:25 am ]
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I use a piece of 3/8 plate glass ... its about 2.5 x 7.5 long, and I just hold the sandpaper on it over its edges - easy to change grits, I start with 400 or 600, then do a quick run with 1000. Then recrown any that need it and then finger sand (20 strikes with 600 and 1000 along each fret) and polish with rouge and a dremel/felt wheel. Really shiny .....
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:28 am ]
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I am a RC model airplane builder and have the Great Plans bar. It is pretty light weight and not likely to hold up to repeated hardwood sanding. Keep in mind That it is designed to sand light ply and balsa. The StewMac precision ground aluminum bar is much heaver and more accurate.
Author:  Bruce Dickey [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:28 am ]
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#5 Stanley Plane body. Remove Chip-breaker, Blade, and Frog. I put some ribs on top of mine epoxied slit 3/8 Poly tubing on it for a grip. Wrap sandpaper around it and go to town. It's amazing how good a radius you can sand with a flat plane body and sandpaper.
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:40 am ]
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You've got to be careful that the paper is wrapped really tightly around the block/bar/plane body. If you have it a bit loose, it will sand the edges of the fingerboard/frets more than you might like...ie not constant radius.

I usually use narrower paper and stick it on- a lot more trouble but it works better for me.

Cheers

John
Author:  David R White [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:34 am ]
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I would not assume a marble tile is flat. Test it carefully with a straightedge and feeler gauge.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:26 pm ]
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What, you got a problem with people who worked at the Mill? 
Author:  Louis Freilicher [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:47 pm ]
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Here are some of my homemade fret leveling files. I cut the tangs off with a grinder and epoxy the file to a nice hardwood block that I've trued up over the jointer or with a hand plane.

The big one on top is a mill bastard file and that's my go to file for initial leveling.

The shorter maple handled one is a double cut file that I made up for leveling out bar frets. It your best friend when you need to remove a lot of meat and you don't have all day.

The two red handled files are mill smooth files and I use them mostly for cleaning up after the bastard cut and for beveling the fret ends. (Those are bubinga handles if anyone is curious.)

The little tiny guy I use for beveling the first four frets on the top side of banjo necks, pesky fifth string bump always gets in the way. It's also really nice for spot leveling inlay dots.









I like to round over the tips of thee files to minimize and bumps and dings that they can put into the frets if the nose dips down while filing.

Louis
Author:  KiwiCraig [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:26 pm ]
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I think Alan was lucky to find a flat file !
I took my straight edge to the hardware store . The salesman ( after I found him ), was good enough to undo 6 Nicholson's out of their bubble pack. Not one of them flat .. I ended up making my own leveling device out of aluminium square stock. I leveled it on thick glass ( thin double taped to a 400 grit abrasive paper )
Don't assume that a flat and true piece of glass ( or marble) will give you a flat and true result . It's something you have to work on and check constantly .I finally got it down to within 1 thou. over 15 inches , but it took a while .I've found it easier to cause a concave in the middle of the piece to be leveled , and then bring down the ends to meet
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:28 pm ]
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Now those are nice, even if he did use that bad word (mill) two times! 
Author:  Pete Licis [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:34 am ]
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I saw an interesting solution to the problem of a concave or convex file at a New England Luthier's meeting. I think it was either Yukon or Bob Meltz that had a file onto which he mounted a truss rod on the non-business side of the file to bring it to flat. Perhaps Don Williams or Al Carruth remembers the details (I think they may have been there).
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:45 am ]
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I use a 24" aluminum carpenter's level with sandpaper glued to the edge. You have to find a level with a flat edge for this to work because most have some type of ribbed profile. Levels are very straight so no preparation is necessary.
Author:  Kristopher10 [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:22 am ]
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This is a related topic, but not completely on task with the current thread.

I think I am missing something...I have been reading about classical builders sanding/planing relief into their necks to prevent buzzing and increase playability (a book recently released). Some even relieve the bass side more to accomodate the increased movement of the bass strings. I understand that (I think)and it makes sense. My issue is that the books I have been reading say to use a dead flat file/block/whatever to level the frets. Doesn't doing this eliminate any benefit that relieving the fingerboard would have?? The frets would be perfectly flat...no relief. Again, I am likely missing something...
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:28 am ]
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Now that Pete mentions it.....

I think they ground the tang off and epoxied a couple of blocks to the convex side of the file. A long bolt and a T-nut would serve to pull it flat.

There are so many good ideas out there you can't possibly remember them all!
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:27 am ]
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Kris,  yes, and some even make a small hump at the 6th fret to counteract the pull of the strings and get a flat FB under tension.

Still, the file is not as long as the whole FB.  From what I've seen the files usually employed at this task can cover, what, 4-5 frets at one time ?
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