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Heel Block Grain Direction
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=13061		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  JHerrick [ Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:42 pm ]
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I laminate blocks togther to create my heel block. I also use a bolted on neck.


Typically my guitar heel block end grain faces perpendicular to the neck. This is the way I was taught and makes sense to me structurally. The face grain of the guitar sides are glued to the face grain of the heel block. Additionally, the bolt's tension is through long grain.


But now that I'm building a cut-away, I seem to have a dilemma.



  1. Using the layout above, the cut away side of the guitar will now be glued to end grain of the heel block, which doesn't make the strongest joint (granted there is a lot of surface area available). It appears to me the cutway side of the guitar will rely primarily on this glue joint for its strength.

  2. If I rotate the end grain so that it is now parallel to the neck, the cut away side of the guitar has long grain to be glued against. However, the bolts are in compression against the end grain and basically in position to "split" the heel block?

I'm leaning toward number 2 believing the laminations will reduce the likelihood of splitting and the side glue joint is more of a risk than splitting.


Your thoughts would be appreciated.


Thanks,


Joe
Author:  Chansen [ Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:37 pm ]
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I'm no expert but I think you would want to keep the grain following the grain of the sides (#1). This is what is stated in Kinkade's book and seems to make sense to a laymen such as myself... even with a cutaway. Hopefully someone with a bit more experience will pop in though.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:18 pm ]
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Joe, when I read your topic heading, I thought you were talking about the block of wood from which the heel of the neck is carved, if you're constructing a neck with a scarf-joined head stock and a heel block. Most people call the block you're talking about the "neck block". Some call it the "head block". So, your terminology is likely to cause some confusion among others as well.

As for neck block grain orientation, there are several threads on this in the archives which may be helpful to you. I'm not sure if any of them directly address your question regarding cutaways, and I am also interested in hearing about how people handle this.   
Author:  TonyKarol [ Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:16 pm ]
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I leave the neck block the saem way as always, grain the same as the sides, edge grain top and bottom (and I would call what you are talking about Todd a stacked heel, once glued on).

Yes you will have the cutaway side section gluing to end grain - I use Lee Valley G2 epoxy here - ALWAYS.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:14 am ]
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The internal blocks, neck block and butt block I go with the grain of the block running perpendicular to the side wood.

A heel block on glued up neck blank, I would want the grain to run the same as the neck shaft for appearance.
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:22 am ]
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I always have the neck block grain in the same direction as the sides.

Consider using Baltic birch for the tail block. Grain then becomes a non-issue and it is much more split-resistant.
Author:  JHerrick [ Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:02 am ]
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[QUOTE=ToddStock]I need my edit button...too little coffee...[/QUOTE]


Heh..me too! You're right guys I AM talking about the head block (I actually have not one, but 2 excuses. 1) it was way too late for me when I posted and 2) the plans I'm looking again this morning at clearly says "heel block, so it all blurred together)


There are some good ideas on options.


Thanks,


Joe
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:07 am ]
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I wish people wouldn't call the neck or head block the "heel block." I think Taylor does that and it is wrong and confusing.

I laminate; basically a two piece block to which I also add a Spanish style shoe, so that I have grain in three different directions. The inner half of the block runs the same as the sides. The outer half runs so that its end grain faces the top. That gives both the top and the cutaway some face grain to glue to.
Author:  James Ringelspaugh [ Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:42 am ]
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I laminate as well. You get face grain to face grain in all directions. I use three blocks so that I don't have to route a mortise for the neck tenon.


Author:  Todd Rose [ Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:38 pm ]
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[QUOTE=TonyKarol] (and I would call what you are talking about Todd a stacked heel, once glued on).

[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I would call it a "stacked heel" if it's made of two or more pieces stacked. But if the heel is made of one solid block glued to the bottom of the neck shaft, I'd call that block the "heel block".
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:12 am ]
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It would also not be unreasonable for someone to think that a "heel block" is the block at the end of the guitar.
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:44 am ]
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Now that we are at this, may i ask what should the grain orientation be for a spanish heel stack ?  I couldn't find an answer with the search.  The bottom long piece is probably the same as the main piece. What about the center piece/s?
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:01 am ]
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It is usually all in the same direction as the neck, from what I have seen and read.  Mostly done either in one piece or stacked with grain in the same direction, from the same piece of wood.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:03 am ]
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That last was referring to the Spanish Heel stack remark.
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:09 am ]
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Thanks !
Author:  Bill Greene [ Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:12 am ]
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[QUOTE=lex_luthier] I laminate as well. You get face grain to face grain in all directions. I use three blocks so that I don't have to route a mortise for the neck tenon. [][/QUOTE]

Well isn't that fiendishly clever.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:07 am ]
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[QUOTE=Howard Klepper] It would also not be unreasonable for someone to think that a "heel block" is the block at the end of the guitar.[/QUOTE]

The whole anatomical analogy breaks down with the "heel" doesn't it? I mean, there's the head, the neck, the shoulders, the body, the waist... what the heck is a "heel" doing at the base of the neck?? And it doesn't really look like a heel, anyway - it's more like a foot. But, at the base of the neck... I guess there isn't really an analogous anatomical part. "Heel" it is...
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