Most used in fixture building and or holding down things to the bench, places wher I don't have room for the cam lever to pull over and a the occasional persuader
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| Clamp or Go-Bar Deck http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=13174 |
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| Author: | EnFuego [ Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:11 pm ] |
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I guess I should introduce myself first. I just joined the forum, but I have been reading the archives for a while now. I recognize a few of the names on here from other forums that I am a member of. I just finished grad school, and sold a guitar to fund my venture into building.I am planning on getting the Cumpliano book and the Mayes videos to walk me through the process. I haven't started building yet, and now I am trying to figure out what tools I need in order to get started (I've been looking through the archives to figure this out). Anyway, onto the question for this thread. It seems like luthiers love their clamps, but it also seems like a lot of people are using go-bar decks to attach the backs and tops to the sides. I'm trying to avoid redundancy in tool purchases, so do you need both, or will the go-bar deck alone suffice? Perhaps a go-bar deck and a few clamps? Thanks for the help, Mark |
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| Author: | Rick Turner [ Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:31 pm ] |
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A lot of clamps plus a go-bar deck! Then some more clamps and another go-bar deck... And then a vacuum frame clamping system... It never ends. Yet in Paracho, Mexico they use hot hide glue and take a break and lean on the guitar parts being glued for a few minutes..."No, senor, you are not keeping me from my work; I am clamping this with one hand and talking to you with the other!" and they kick our asses when it comes to productivity... |
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| Author: | Mattia Valente [ Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:11 pm ] |
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You need both, for different things. I've 'only' got 13 wood cam clamps, I'd like to have at least 13 more (always add one or two whenever I order from somewhere that carries them), a selection of metal F clamps (big and small, mostly for solidbody laminations), and a bunch of go-bars in different lengths. Wouldn't mind vacuum, but I can't rationalize the cost or the space. I don't really use much other than the wooden cam clamps and go-bars (5mm fibreglass, rubber nibs, kite supply shop) for any of my gluing; cams for headstock veneers, fingerboards, blocks, etc. Lining's the only odd one out (binder clips, soon some of John Watkins's aluminum custom clamps). Go-bars make it cheap and easy to glue down braces and tops and backs. Apply each stick takes seconds, one hand, and it's nice and consistent. A deck's cheap (few bits of ply, or a shelf, or a table that's heavy enough) and has many, many uses. What's not to love? |
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| Author: | Bill Greene [ Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:47 pm ] |
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Both, without a doubt. A go-bar deck will just not be vesatile enough to do everything you'll need to use clamps for. You'll use clamps for A LOT of things, no just putting braces on. But you don't have to buy top of the line clamps. Some of the cheaper imported clamps will work just fine for what we use them for. And honestly, vacuum doesn't have to be very expensive. You can use an air compressor (easily found cheap, used) and basic hardware parts to make a venturi system. And a buddy that lives not too far from here, built his vacuum press "round", and it seals against his concrete floor. And his guitars are amazing. It's very do-able. And like someone mentioned above, go bars decks can be very cheap as well. I used scrap OSB, and leftover conduit from a construction site near here. And I'm with Hesh, you can find the threaded rods cheaper than at the box stores. |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:02 am ] |
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I never met a woodworker who had enough clamps. We had a vacuum clamp setup when I was sharing shop space with a friend, but when I moved out the compressor stayed there. I screwed a piece of plywood up to the low ceiling above one of my benches, and ripped out some strips of clear stock: instant go-bar deck. You can make 50 or more spool clamps in an afternoon with thread rod, large diameter dowels cut to 1" lengths, some cork board, and wingnuts. I use these for clamping the top and back to the sides. You will need at least a few C-clamps, and a few bar clamps. At least three deep-troat clamps are good for gluing bridges. A couple of the big parallel clamps are nice for gluing up stack laminates, and as surrogate bench vices. I use rubber bands and sticks to join tops and backs. You may need to special order the rubber bands (#107). And then there's the rubber rope; a long strip cut from a truck inner tube, that you use for putting on binding. I've been at this for more than thirty years, and I'm still buying clamps, but not as many as I used to. |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:04 am ] |
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Oops: forgot the box of spring clip clothsepins with rubber band reinforcement for clamping liners. |
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| Author: | old man [ Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:03 am ] |
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For braces, and gluing on top and back, all you need is the go-bar deck. For gluing in heel and tail blocks you will need cam clamps or bar clamps. For linings I also use the small plastic spring clamps. When I glue up a laminated neck, I use about 20 bar clamps. I use cam clamps to glue on the bridge. I use cam clamps and/or bar clamps to glue on the fretboard and head plate, etc. You need clamps. Ron |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:02 am ] |
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Todd, Mattia, those are great tips about the kite supply stores. Thanks! |
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| Author: | KenH [ Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:39 am ] |
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I dont even own a go-bar deck, so I am a clamp only kind of guy. I made all of my clamps out of some oak 1x2's I had laying around and they work like a champ. I made about 40 of them and have about $3 each in them. I could use 40 more because I am always coming up with other things that need clamping. I would love to have a go-bar deck, but havent been real inspired to build one and then buy the fiberglass bars. I get along fine without the deck but I dont see how you could possibly get along without clamps....at least a few of them. |
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| Author: | Lillian F-W [ Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:24 am ] |
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Mark, before you invest money into dvd's you might want to go over to Smartflix and rent a few different ones. This will give you a chance to check out whose style is more compatible with your skill/tool level. |
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| Author: | EnFuego [ Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:18 pm ] |
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Thank you all for the help. Okay, so it looks like my best bet is to build the go-bar deck, and get some clamps as well. Sounds like I will need cam clamps (thinking of an order of 12-ish to start), a few c-clamps, deepthroat clamps, and a variety of smaller plastic clamps. Does anybody use either of these style, www.woodcraft.com/ family.aspx?FamilyID=5851">VariosClippix or www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=3777">Handi-Clamp, or is it best to stick with the FamilyID=328">Cam Clamps? Lillian, thanks for hte heads up on Smartflix. I will have to check it out. |
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| Author: | EnFuego [ Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:19 pm ] |
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well those links didnt work out well. Let me try again: http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=3777 OR http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=5851 or should I stick with the wooden cam clamps? |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:25 pm ] |
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I have a couple of clamps that look like the Handi Clamp, and don't like them much. They are Quick Grip ones though, and probably aren't as good. The ones you linked to look like they ratchet down. Mine don't. |
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| Author: | James Ringelspaugh [ Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:33 pm ] |
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They say god himself needs more clamps. You can build a guitar without a go bar deck, but not without cam clamps. |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:00 am ] |
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I agree with you Todd, I only have 8 cam clamps total and a few g clamps and extending clamps. All of my bracing and body closure clamping is done using the go-bar, which has the equivalent of 40 clamps! The go-bars are much quicker to use and you can brace the whole top in one go. I know you can brace a top without a dish and go-bars, but why make life difficult. Colin |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:12 am ] |
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I have sixteen 8" cam clamps, four 4" cam clamps, two 12" cam clamps, ten 6" bar clamps, 8 36" bar clamps. and assortment of some twenty wood screw clamps, a go bar deck with some forty rods and an untold amout of C clamps. The moral to this story is you can never have enough clamps. Also while many tasks can be done one a go-bar deck It will not be a total replacement for Cam-clamps. To start building with build a Go-Bar system with twenty rods. Buy or build eight 8" cam clamps, get a good assortment of bar clamps mostly 6" or 8" and several C clamps. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 2:13 am ] |
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Most used in fixture building and or holding down things to the bench, places wher I don't have room for the cam lever to pull over and a the occasional persuader
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 2:52 am ] |
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I have about 6 of those Quick Grip 6" bar clamps, and I use them all the time for all kinds of stuff. They are so easy to apply vs cam clamps or G clamps, IMO. About the only thing easier is spring clamps. |
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| Author: | Mattia Valente [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:12 am ] |
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Frankly, the only reason I need more than the 13 cam clamps I have (and 'need' is a big word...) is that I tend to build more than one instrument at a time, so it's not uncommon for a bunch of them to be tied up gluing a neck blank, or two fretboards to two necks, while I'm really wanting to clamp together some other bits and pieces. They also exert more force than go-bars do, overall, and differently, so if you're gluing (for example) braces in an arched top, or a solidbody guitar top to the rest, clamps always seem to be the easiest/smartest way to go about it. To me, anyway. |
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