Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Sat Nov 23, 2024 9:45 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 7:04 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:35 pm
Posts: 1021
Location: United States
In a thread over on the AGF, Matt Mustapick posed a very good question
regarding this phenomenon:

After a guitar has been bound, there is often a very noticeable increase in
the volume and resonance of the guitar body. There is a difference even
before the binding ledge has been routed. This was my explanation,
which didn't seem to jive with what Matt has experienced. So I am
wondering if anyone has some insight into the matter.

Simply put, my explanation is that the binding acts to "seal" the guitar
body. And that even before you route the binding ledge, you still have
various airpockets around the perimeter of the guitar - headblock, brace
ends, and heelblock. And then when you route the binding ledge, you
often will have quite a few more gaps in the kerfing - depending on how
thick your binding is. I have noticed that once the binding ledge has
been routed, that the guitar body has much less resonance compared to
the bound body.

I have also noticed that since I've switched to double sides, that my
binding ledge never goes thru to the kerfing and that this operation
doesn't decrease the resonance of my soundboxes as much as it once did
when I used thinner sides and had gaps a inbetween the "kerfing blocks".

I am just wondering if that explanation is correct, partially correct, or
entirely off the mark. Also, how does a soundport affect the resonance of
a guitar body - because this seems to conflict slightly with my
explanation. Unless, the "position" and "size" of the soundport has a big
effect - which I am thinking is the case.


So fire away if you have any good ideas on the subject.


Thanks,
Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 7:29 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:59 pm
Posts: 2103
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Country: Romania
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
I'm not sure the kerfs alone are the culprit, but in any case I have to agree to the importance of binding in the system. 

I have actually strung up a guitar with the ledge cut but no binding and it sounded quite poor.  After I've glued one half, it sounded better, and better again when it was complete.  The ledge was quite narrow, it was not exposing kerfing gaps.

The resonance of various bits within a guitar is given by their stiffness, weight, and damping. AND the effect of what is glued to them. A soundport can't have much effect on the stiffness and weight of a side, less so on the more important top and back, but it affects the air inside the guitar.


_________________
Build log


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 7:43 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:13 am
Posts: 1398
Location: United States
The most recent jumbo I finished (H'burg attendees may have seen the one with the large rope purfling) was bound with carbon fiber. I laminated three .021" x .250" strips around the guitar with superglue, and I also lined the reverse kerfing with one strip of the .021" x .250" CF. The reverse kerfing it itself glued onto a side doubler that is about 1 1/4" wide laminated to the sides all the way around. This has made for an incredibly stiff edge/rim around the top of the guitar.   I think it's helped the already good sustain and also enhances the headroom capacity of the guitar. It's a loud sucker and the volume is only limited by how high I can stand to have the action.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:05 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:50 pm
Posts: 3927
Location: United States
I've measured the resonances on a few guitars at different stages; closed box, binding rabbet routed, and binding on. On my guitars the closed box is pretty well closed; there aren't any extraneous holes to speak of.

Usually what happens is that the 'main air' mode is totally messed up by the routing. The pitch rises and it becomes very weak, owing, no doubt, to all the leakage. The 'main top' resonant mode drops in pitch by a fair amount, although I can't tell you off the top of my head how much. It's probably something like a few semitones. The higher order top modes also drop a little, but less.

When I glue on the bindings the air mode pretty well goes back to where it was with the box freshly closed. The top modes also recover somewhat, but are not quite as high in pitch as they were before the binding rabbets were cut.

Part of the drop in top pitch with the rabbets cut is, no doubt, from the loss of stiffness around the edges. However, part of it is also from the weakness of the 'main air' mode. Remember, the 'main top' pitch is the result of a couple between the air and top, which pushes the pitch of the 'real' Helmholtz mode down and the 'real main top' mode up to the values that we see on the completed guitar. With less air pressure change in the box, the rise in the top mode pitch is lessened,

Putting the bindings on certainly seems to get the air mode back to it's old robust self. It also probably adds some stiffness to the edges, but it's hard to say how much.

The bottom line, then, is that routing for the binding has some acoustic effect, but it's going to be hard to sort it all out.    


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:37 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:44 pm
Posts: 1105
Location: Crownsville, MD
First name: Trevor
Last Name: Lewis
City: Crownsville
State: MD
Zip/Postal Code: 21032
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Great info, thanks for sharing...

_________________
http://www.PeakeGuitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:40 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:59 pm
Posts: 2103
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Country: Romania
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
It's interesting that on the guitar I work on now, the binding did not change the main top mode. With the ledge cut, the half tones above and below the main mode were very strong and was hard to decide that the center one is the strongest.  Bindings made the outer peaks weaker, or maybe enhanced the center tone.  




_________________
Build log


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 44 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com