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Classical Rosette Progress #1(pics)
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Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:42 am ]
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I have been working on my rosette design for over a month now.  I had 4 failures when gluing up logs to make the tiles.  I was getting very frustrated.  I decided to slow down and not try to push so hard.  I finally got tiles that, I think, will work.



So here is what my original plan looked like laid out on my drawing.



Here it is in a piece of spruce cut with a fly cutter.



Close up.



Then I realized I didn't have a circle scriber, so I decided to make one.  Here is what I came up with.









Cut a pair of circles for the inside rosette circle.


Decided that maybe I could make minor changes, and design an add on to use for cutting an edge for purflings and or bindings.  Came up with this.




Reviewing - This was my original design for the center of the rosette. 


I thought this looked a little black for the rosette overall.  I decided to see what incorporating some Zebrawood into the design would do, since the back and sides will be Zebrawood.  I got this.



This is the inside circle, and there will be a similar outside circle, with possibly another outside circle with just a few lines after leaving maybe a 1mm spruce circle.



I cut that slot with a chisel.  Made some errors.  Need not to do that on my top when I do it.  Thanks for looking.

I would appreciate any thoughts on the central design, and whether you like the all tile version or the one with the Zebrawood interspersed in the circle.

Thanks
Author:  KenH [ Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:01 am ]
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VERY cool rosette Waddy! I personally like the one with the zebrawood better because it adds some flavor to the overall rosette. It should look nice with the inner and outer rings also.


I cant immagine actually making a rosette by makig your own log. Ya dun good!


 
Author:  MaxBishop [ Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:21 am ]
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Great looking design, Waddy! The back to back "R"s look terrific and very distictive. I am planning to start working on my own classical rosettes soon. So, I am very interested. Where did you find instructions for the rosette making technique?

Regards,
Max Bishop
Brighton, Michigan
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:39 am ]
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Thanks Ken and Max.  The design is actually a WRT(my initials).  The T in the center, with the W crossing over and forming the bottom of the two back to back R's.  When I decided to build, I decided on total immersion, and that included making my own rosette.

Max, take a look at Dave Schramm's website. He has a number of things there that are worth note, including how he makes his rosettes.   I also like this site, at Connor Guitars.  There are also others that help, including a few links in the OLF Tutorial Page.
Author:  Jim Watts [ Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:39 am ]
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Very nicely done Waddy.
I like the one with the Zebra wood in between the tiles.
The other is maybe a little too dark overall for me.
Author:  Shawn [ Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:25 pm ]
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Waddy,

I really like the center element now that you broke it up with the Zebrawood. When you repeat a design motif for the center ring, it can detract from the fine detail of the actual tile so by keeping the design to a single element and its mirror and then placing it in between a contrasting element of a different color weight and value, it emphasizes the tile rather than having it blur together as it one pattern.

Are you putting any solid lines on either side of the central ring? In a traditional Spanish rosette there is typically a solid line (or lines) between the center ring and the outer design (your outer design) and then a single line on the outside.

There is a really good article in one of the older GAL issues by Eugene Clark in which he shows examples of Spanish rosettes and the common elements. I dont remember if it is in one of the Red Books but I know that if you search the GAL site for Eugene Clark articles, they will have it listed.

Thanks for showing your progress...it is alot more work to design and assemble your own rosette, especially for a classical guitar but very gratifying when it comes together. It is looking very good.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:36 pm ]
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Thanks Jim and Shawn.  I agree that the broken pattern is better than the all tile pattern.  I think it will blend well.

Shawn, I'll check on the GAL issue.  Is it a very old one?
I had the maple, before the slant rope.  Do you think I need, maybe, a maple/black, or a maple/BRW(that's what the last inside ring is) in between?  That would not be a big adjustment.
Author:  Bill Greene [ Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:56 pm ]
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Whoa, Waddy that's awesome. I like'em both. I can't imagine how meticulous creating those must be.

Very impressive. Looking forward to seeing the finished product in person sometime.

Bill
Author:  redennis3 [ Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:24 pm ]
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I think somebody has been holding out on us.......


         You git-er-dun Waddy, lookin good


                               Red
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:07 pm ]
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thanks guys!  Progress is slow, but I'm getting closer to the assembly process.
Author:  jfrench [ Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:31 pm ]
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Waddy - great work! Making rosettes is very rewarding.

How about a post with details about your cicle cutter? Also, what did you use for the blade?
Author:  Heath Blair [ Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:13 pm ]
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waddy, youre a cool dude. maybe im alone here, but i am all about the first rosette. i like dark. when i saw the first picture of just the R's, i wasnt sure what to expect. the completed rosette looks great to me! and your circle scriber and binding ledge cutter is pretty crafty too. good job man!
Author:  peterm [ Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:14 pm ]
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Waddy,
great job specially for a first!!

Personally I would do the whole rosette wit the black tiles (no zebra) and border the rosette with a B/W purfling line both inside and outsite.

Good luck,
Peter
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:35 am ]
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Thanks, Joshua, Heath and Peter.  It has been frustrating, but a real learning experience.  The logs that I got these tiles from, were made from my last two sets of strips from the layered logs.  If they hadn't worked I would have had to start over.  Not something I relished thinking about.

Joshua:
I'll see what I can put together on making the combination tool.  It sort of fell together as I worked.  I had seen a similar one in a picture in Courtnall's book, but thought it could use some slight mods.  The idea for an attachment for binding ledges came later.  I'm actually thinking that a short dowell, which slopes away a little, on the other end of that attachment might also let it be flipped around to cut a side purfling groove.  The blade is a ground down bi-metal jigsaw blade.  I just had to grind a little at a time so it didn't overheat.  Once shaped, I sharpened on a Work Sharp tool I recently bought.

Heath and Peter:
Thanks, I like the dark too, but I think that, because the guitar will be Zebra, that the all black version will draw too much attention.  While I think the rosette is important to the overall instrument, I don't think it should be overpowering.  It's really black, and there isn't much other black on the guitar, with the exception of the tuners.  My goal, even though it is my first, is to have an overall, outward design that will make it distinctly mine.  If I had used another color as the dark in the center, I might have a different opinion.  Another thing that will be nice is that using the Zebra will leave me enough tiles to make another rosette with what I have, for build #2.  A real timesaver.  Build #3 will have one with something besides black, maybe Walnut, BRW, or Zircote as the dark color.  It will give contrast but not be overpowering.

Thanks again, all, for you comments.
Author:  DannyV [ Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:29 am ]
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Circle cutting by hand! You ARE the man. Traditional rosettes are cool and
not so traditional ones like yours are even more cool. I like the one with the
zebrawood myself. And look forward to seeing the finished product.

Cheers, Danny
Author:  jfrench [ Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:01 am ]
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Waddy - I totally agree with you that the rosette should not be overpowering. One of the things that I think the great makers are real masters at is evisioning how something will look once it all comes together.

You don't want the rosette to draw attention - you want someone to say "Thats a beautiful guitar!" far before "thats a beautiful rosette!".

If you drew a quick scetch of a guitar, in order for it to be identafiable you'd really only need to draw the shape, a neck and a soundhole. Because the soundhole is such a staple feature of the guitar, its okay to have a bold or dark rosette and it won't detract from the overall look. When you look at a guitar with a dark rosette like that you aren't drawn into the rosette, it simply flows with the aesthetics.

I always like my guitars to look very simple from a distance. I don't do a very traditional rosette, but you'd be surprised that my guitars look very traditional from anything more than a few feet away.

Anyways, just some thoughts. I like the black one and I like the zebrawood one. Either look as though they would work great (I'd tend toward a thick dark border on the zebrawood one.. with some rosewood lines surrounding the border you've made it would look perfect to me). Too bad you didn't make the log long enough to do one of each?
Author:  SteveCourtright [ Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:35 am ]
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Super work there Waddy! I love both rosettes, but the zebra might be more fun with your combination of woods for the instrument. I really like the tool, too.
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:04 am ]
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Waddy - I like the one that is all pattern, rather than the zebrawood addition. I tend to like motifs that aren't broken up somehow in classical rosettes.

I too admire your ambition to take this step. I'm getting ready to start a new batch of three guitars, and I struggled long and hard over whether to bite the bullet and take that important step towards self-identity and definition. In the end, I worried that this would amount to just not getting the guitars built for a while (because I don't know yet what I want my rosette to look like), and I decided to practice soundboard tuning and purfling mitering instead. This really is a critical step though, eventually.

Jim
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:39 am ]
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Well, I tried to change the subject of this response,  but it did a new post on the forum.  This is a link to it.  Title: "Final Version ? Dry Assembly(Pics)".  I still haven't figured out how to change the subject in these threads.  Others do it.  Why can't I?   

Thanks for looking at my rosette, and thanks for your comments.  All were helpful in my decision.
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:48 pm ]
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Waddy, inspiring work, and a beautiful circle cutter!
I personally like the original design, dark though it is.
It's still elegant, and without screaming, says "Waddy".

.o2 for ya.

Steve
Author:  Marc [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:25 am ]
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Great work Waddy, also making some very nice tools.
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