350* for 30 minutes. Test with a toothpick to see if done.
Just Kidding !!!!
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| Baking Cocobolo http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=13585 |
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| Author: | Ziegenfuss [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:33 am ] |
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Quick Question: I Recently resawed some beautiful cocobolo for use as fretboards. As such, they require a great deal of sanding. Cocobolo is aweful in terms of how easily and quickly it loads up any paper. In conversations with Lance, he has suggested that some people bake it to force out the resin.... Has anyone done this, and if so what are the general rules of thumb for time and temperature? Is it a good idea at all?
Thanks Stephen |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:38 am ] |
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350* for 30 minutes. Test with a toothpick to see if done. Just Kidding !!!! |
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| Author: | Ziegenfuss [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:05 am ] |
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I hope it is that simple :) |
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| Author: | Shawn [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:34 am ] |
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Kiln drying rosewoods does tend to cause resins to be forced out of woods but even kiln drying is done at a relatively low temperature over a longer period of time as case hardening can result when wood is heated too hot, too quick. Case hardening is when the outside of the wood is heated but the inner part of the wood is not heated as high. The result is increased instability of the wood and doesnt really accomplish the intended result in that the resin in the inner part of the wood is still present and can come out later. A better way to sand rosewood and other resinous woods is to use an open coat non-loading sandpaper and to clean the belt often with a sanding belt cleaner. A better alternative yet is to plane and/or scrape the surface to thickness as it does not raise dust and a finely tuned and sharpened plane or scraper will do the job faster than sanding. You can remove some of the surface oils and resins by wiping down the surface with alcohol or naptha and in general is a good practice when gluing Cocobolo or other "oily" woods. |
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| Author: | Ziegenfuss [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:47 am ] |
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Thanks so much for the help, Shawn
Stephen |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:13 am ] |
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I am pretty sure that the reason people bake the resins out of coco is to make for better glue adhesion. I would have to dig in some very old emails, but if I recall it was 250* for 3 or 4 hours. |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:32 am ] |
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I never heard of baking wood for better glue adhesion. It isn't necessary for good gluing. What I have heard of is baking back and sides for stability. At fingerboard thickness, you can use a planer. When you pass it through a sander, it will load less if you run it at an angle to the grain. |
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| Author: | Ziegenfuss [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:41 am ] |
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I have never planed Coco before - is there a tear-out problem at all? |
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| Author: | Shawn [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:29 am ] |
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only if it is wild grained... and as Howard mentioned if you angle the wood in the planer it shears the cut. |
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| Author: | Bobc [ Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:44 am ] |
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I plane coco fretboards all the time. Sharp blades and feed thru on an angle. Works well. |
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| Author: | A Peebels [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:55 am ] |
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Baking Cocobolo sounds like a good way to become allergic to it if you are not already. Al |
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| Author: | PaulB [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:03 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=A Peebels] Baking Cocobolo sounds like a good way to become allergic to it if you are not already. Al[/QUOTE] I was just thinking the same thing. Filling up the house with fumes will expose the whole family. That is, if the compound in cocobolo that's responsible for the allergic reaction comes out during baking (or side bending). |
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| Author: | McCollum [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:26 pm ] |
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Why would you want to bake a cocobolo fingerboard? We spend all of our time trying to keep ebony fingerboards and such oiled up. I've never had a problem with a cocobolo fingerboard drying out. So why try to get rid of the oils? I have over-baked cocobolo sides while bending them. And while it does sand better, it does not remove any of the toxic dust that so many of us are worried about. I've never had many problems gluing cocobolo together. Only had one problem where the kerfing didn't adhere, and that was because the sides were too finely sanded for the glue to take hold. The best thing about cocobolo is using it for bindings. It doesn't take any water and you can bend it any way you want to with the right amount of heat. And as soon as it cools it stays in that position. Lance mccollumguitars.com |
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| Author: | jfrench [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:56 pm ] |
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Too finely sanded for the glue to hold?.... It would seem that since a joint prepared with a plane or a scraper is a suerior joint to one that is sanded, it would be very difficult to sand a joint too finely - assuming it was done accurately. |
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| Author: | jfrench [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:59 pm ] |
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edit: *superior |
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| Author: | Ziegenfuss [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:50 pm ] |
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I agree with all of you - and the reason that I was thinking about baking the coco first was to ease up the amount of sandpaper I will go through when applying the radius...But when all is said and done, I suppose it is better to have a naturally oiled fretboard than use some extra 3M... And surface roughness contributes to the mechanical adhesion of most glues - especially when there is not a strong chemical bonding - so I suppose it is possible to sand a joint too finely; but this is probably unattainable with wood, given its relatively open grain structure...Anyway Thank you guys so much again. It is amazing how much people know and have experience with. Stephen |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:12 am ] |
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The mechanical adhesion of any glue except epoxy is pretty much irrelevant, and even with epoxy I think it is overrated. The problem with sanding too fine is that it packs the pores with fine sanding dust. If that dust is not removed, it reduces surface area. It's also unlikely that after all that sanding one would still have a plane surface. |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:13 am ] |
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Actually, "mechanical adhesion" is an oxymoron. Adhesion is a chemical attraction that takes place on the level of molecules. |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:13 am ] |
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And when do we get to edit posts again? |
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| Author: | grumpy [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:50 am ] |
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Perhaps if everyone leaves and/or stops posting until the software is updated, they'll get the hint. I was once a Union Man; shall we have a strike vote? Or, if the sponsors pull the plug, maybe then? No reason for this archaic system with the traffic and revenue being generated here. |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:17 am ] |
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Give me a break please |
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| Author: | grumpy [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:13 am ] |
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Give us an edit button, and we'll grant the break <g> until such a time.... |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:16 am ] |
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Yeah, Deep Pockets!!!
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:41 am ] |
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I think the employer/employee model is inapt here. |
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