Yep!! MP is me, and yes my headstocks are adorned with
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| Zootman & Adi Tops!!!...Oh my!!! http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=13595 |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:31 am ] |
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I just noticed that Bob is listing Adirondack Spruce tops for the first time ever. His offering is THE best quality and pricing I've ever seen and I've bought quite a few sets over the past 4 years. This had to have appeared in the last day or so and already one "MP" bought the best set on the lot! If this is as stiff as it is pretty we have a real find. Please let this only be the tip of more sets to come...what say you, Bob??? |
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| Author: | grumpy [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:50 am ] |
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Wasn't -this- "MP"... Wasn't long ago that most of that would have been rejected and tossed back to the firewood pile. The times, they are a changing.... |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:32 am ] |
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Hey Grumpy...I never even remotely thought it was you since I know that you cut your own. Sorry you felt so dishonored! <BG> The "MP" I assumed is the one whose headstock is adorned as such. |
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| Author: | grumpy [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:46 am ] |
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Wasn't a dishonor at all. While i do cut much of my own, I still buy the good stuff when I run across some. The better grades are rare! Bob's best is nice, for sure, and I was simply commenting on how everyone's, builders and players alike, idea of a usable spruce top has certainly changed. I was literally burning such spruce not all that long ago.... |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:37 am ] |
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Yep!! MP is me, and yes my headstocks are adorned with
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:54 am ] |
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Oh by the way. I have looked for a nice Adi top for two weeks now. Everything I have seen has been inconsistent in color. Also if it had a grain count anything like the two best grade sets Bob showed, then it cost in the $175-$225 range. Now I will not know anything about the stiffness till it gets here but I have yet to be disappointed in anything I have bought from Bob and am sure I wont be this time either. |
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| Author: | Dennis Leahy [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:14 am ] |
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[QUOTE=grumpy] Wasn't long ago that most of that would have been rejected and tossed back to the firewood pile. The times, they are a changing....[/QUOTE] ...I'm trying to think of a comical way to say you're earning your handle. Maybe if I plaster a few chuckling heads here:
If high quality tonewood used to be burned for the crime of being cosmetically imperfect, then it is about time that luthiers figured out that is a waste of material. The worst Adi top Bob is offering will have the defects cut off with the pattern, and hidden by or cut out for the fingerboard. The guitar made from that top will probably sound fantastic, and it will look fantastic. I too was taught (by tonewood vendors) over the past 25 years that uniform white Spruce soundboards with even grain spacing were "Master Grade", or "AAAA" and it all went downhill from there. Trouble is, no one ever proved it. In fact, I think there is ample evidence that it is not true, and that the timbre, sustain, or other sonic properties of a soundboard cannot be prejudged by grain spacing, grain count, or uniformity of color. Maybe I should just quietly stock-up on high-quality, bargain-priced tonewoods that have cosmetic defects, and leave the Master Grade stuff for those who are willing to spend more for that aesthetic. But I thought I'd toss in my $0.02 in support of Bob's wood, as well as remind those who are beginning this craft that the aesthetic qualities that have caused some fine tonewood to be downgraded as sonically inferior are a myth. Dennis |
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| Author: | Bobc [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:34 am ] |
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JJ thanks for the post. Michael you won't be dissapointed. Dennis thanks for your support. As for Grumpy if he was any nicer he'd have to change his handle to "Happy"
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:56 am ] |
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Over the past few years I have collected various sets of Adi and purposely selected the stripey stuff. The stiffness and tap tone was identical to that of the cosmetically more uniform Adi at half the price. IMO, no other top wood sounds as lively and fits my preference as a top wood. Little wonder why the pre-war Martins are still considered the holy grail of tone. Coincidentally, Adirondack Spruce was the choice of top wood until the early 40's. |
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| Author: | grumpy [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:57 am ] |
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If high quality tonewood used to be burned for the crime of being cosmetically imperfect, then it is about time that luthiers figured out that is a waste of material. It was tossed because it wasted space. I agree that it sounds great, and all that, but 5 years ago, we couldn't give away a guitar made with such a top! And to sell them? What they would have sold for wouldn't have covered my time or the shipping... Today, that isn't a problem. And that was my point; everyone, from builders to players, have finally come around. I can now keep, and use, this kind of wood when I run across it now(or sell it, as the prices sure have changed). But all that said, it's still a hard sell.... And it comes back down to the same rational I used for using Waverly machines instead of grovers. What's the cost difference over the lifetime of the instrument? No matter how much we upcharge for the cosmetically "better" grades of woods, most buyers will upgrade, because they know there's value in the nicer woods. I can tell them that the wide grain, stripey top will sound as good as any other, but they'll still want the better one. At certain price points, a few hundred bucks more isn't that big a deal to the buyer. Thus, the pressure is always for the "nicer" woods.... and we're guilty as much as our customers, too. How many of us get excited with plain maple? And how many of us won't think twice of 'upgrading' to killer flame or quilted maple instead? and we all know the end value of the finished product will more than make up for the difference in cost between plain woods and the "killer' stuff, right? Right! we be guilty as charged <bg> |
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| Author: | KenH [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:58 am ] |
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I am finding that customers actually appreciate some variations in color on tops. I dont mind using tops that have color in them at all and I have found that I cannot hear any differences in toanl qualities either. I have some old stock sitka spruce that has a dark stripe in it. That wood is plety stiff and everything I can tell so far is that it will make an excellent soundboard. I dont mind using spruce with a little wider ring spacing too. As long as it isnt really floppy, I can make a good sounding guitar out of it. |
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| Author: | grumpy [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:09 am ] |
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I'm not at all afraid of using wide grain, stripey wood. But it is indeed under-appreciated. I envy those of you who can choose what you build what you wish, at times. I'm much more constrained and tied-down by my market. I've been backlogged since early 1998! here's one of my best sounding guitars of this year (went out early summer). Note the cosmetics of that top... the top: http://www.proulxguitars.com/clients/brett/IMG_6182.jpg and the whole thing: http://www.proulxguitars.com/clients/brett/IMG_1224.jpg It's a MadRw/red spruce slope dread, aptly named the "Eh-Jay" |
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| Author: | James W B [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:34 am ] |
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I just now latched on to set 29.Thanks for the tip.Looks beautiful,I can`t wait to tap on it. James W B |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:35 am ] |
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[QUOTE=grumpy] I envy those of you who can choose what you build what you wish, at times. QUOTE] Hmmm...I always wondered what made you so Grumpy...now we know! 
BTW...I love those tops...mine are even more stripey. Funny thing has happened over 4 years of aging...the stripeyness has has begun to transform into a general darkening with less contrast. |
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| Author: | grumpy [ Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:57 pm ] |
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Yessir |
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| Author: | KenH [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:52 am ] |
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Just ran across something interesting and since it fits this thread so well I thought I would share it. If you like color in your tops, you will *LOVE* this one!
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| Author: | Bobc [ Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:56 am ] |
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Wow Ken thanks for that link. I think their gorgeous. |
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