Official Luthiers Forum!

Sam Price has already posted some pictures of this guitar on the Cheltenham Guitar Show thread, but I thought I'd give it it's own thread in honour of Zootman Bob C's wonderful Black Limba. I built this very quickly - starting in the second week of August with a view to having it for sale at Cheltenham but Suzy fell so in love with it that I couldn't sell it and now have it as a demonstration guitar (cared for by a certain person ). Also it's not in line with what I do - I like to make comissions for people that are bespoke instruments rather than making and then trying to sell.

The fit and finish leave a little to be desired as it had to be made in a hurry - mainly the mitres around the cutaway area - but soundwise I am delighted. It very quickly became a Florentine cutaway model when I had a slight mishap bending the first side . Ok some details:

It is based around my Samhain Grand Concert model but I wanted to try what is (for me) a shorter scale length of 630mm (24.8") and I decided to make it a 13 fret body join as that seemed to fit. The top is Euro spruce with Black Limba b/s and mahogany neck. Binding is ebony with bwb side and top/back purfling, fingerboard and tail wedge are ebony, bridge is Old Rio Rosewood with ebony pins, and the headstock front and back veneers are Black Limba. Tuners are Gotoh with ebony buttons. The back is my X brace/ladder hybrid and the top is my usual bracing pattern but is the lightest bracing I have gone with so far. It has the cf flying buttress braces and free floating neck. Finish is two coats of pre-catalysed lacquer (over Z-Poxy on the b/s) and Tru-oil over Z-Poxy on the neck:













And here's a couple of pictures of the top bracing:





This is the first time I've bought wood from Bob and it's an absolute pleasure dealing with him. The Black Limba is fabulous to work with and takes a finish really well. It has the feel of Mahogany and Walnut and soundwise I think is in that sort of territory - early days for me to tell yet. It has a nice balance with a lovely bass and nice complex trebles high up the neck. It looks fabulous and was attracting a lot of attention at Cheltenham. The neck colour is currently too red and I think I will need to strip it back and work out how to darken it to a more deep brown - any suggestions?

I've recorded a couple of quick things with it using the strings that were on at the show (I don't have any new ones at present). Again my set-up is a single AKG C1000S mic with no effects added, flat EQ. The first is the beginnings of an arrangement of "Can't Help Falling In Love" in DADGAD to demonstrate fingerstyle:

Can't Help Falling In Love

The second is an attempt to demonstrate strumming/flatpicking and is Niall Vallely's three part jig "Long Nancy's" dedicated to his favourite "wateringhole" near Middleton in Co Armagh. You can have a laugh hearing me "fall off" the flatpicking as I set the strumming too fast :

Long Nancy's

Thanks for looking and listening.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Fine sounding instrument, Dave.  Very mellow, with nice treble and bass. Good playing, too, I might add!     

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

I know the forum format can take the emphasis out of comments made, we see so often "Well Done!!" and it loses it's meaning.

I hope what I say can somehow come across as being genuine.

Basically, the tone I heard from the guitar and the recorded pieces is the best tone I have ever heard.

I have listened to the finest guitars at the festival this year, Kinscherff, Brook, Eggle, Moon, Fylde and Forster- yet this Black Limba guitar is by far the "magic tone". I don't know why- perhaps it is the tone I am looking for to express the genre of music I find myself playing. Perhaps it's the fact that this guitar has more musicality than the staid and serious guitars on display at the CG Festival.

It is a stunning instrument, and perhaps a new goal and springboard has been reached in terms of the voicing.

The guitar sounds wonderful in standard tuning, but the fullest potential of the tone is realised when tuned to DADGAD.

This can be validated by my friend who played this guitar and is still commenting about it!

Suzy can anticipate owning a guitar that will just improve year on year with regards to the spruce opening up.

Lovely sound Dave, I see you've put in the brace behind the bridge patch, I use that on all of my guitars and like the way it seems to add a bit of punch. You know I like all of your guitars, so I'll just say that this one doesn't dissapoint.

I'm interested in your impressions of the Black Limba, I bought a set from Bob from his first offering and am planning a OOO-12fret with it, with some of Shanes Lutz. Both being a first for me. Bob says that Limba is very mahogany like (which is why I bought it) and your impressions seem to confirm it.

By the way we use the same mics, I like to use two, one pointed at the bridge the other at the 12th fret, they are the best value mics for the money.

This just confirms my opinion that your the third best builder in the UK.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Really fine work and results, Dave. I love it.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Beautiful guitar! I love the sound clips too. SOmehow adding these sound files gives more of a picture of how the guitar sounds, which is by far more important than how it looks. You have scored a winner with both!

I have a couple of questions, if you dont mind...

First, the sound hole looks oversize?? This may be an optical illusion, but it seems large for the guitar. Is it larger than 4"?

Also, on the 5th picture (looking inside at the neck block) I notice some extra hardware in there (black objects on either side of the neck block). What is it?

 

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Reguards,

Ken H

Sounds like a very responsive instrument Dave.

You can really notice the rounded mid range tones that characterise the parabolic braces.

I'd love to hear it again once it's opened up because it's sounding pretty sweet at the moment.

Cheers

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Bob Connor
Geelong, Australia

Waddy,

Thanks. As I play mostly in dropped and modal tunings I've always thought that longer scale was better to give extra string tension, but after building the Concert ladder guitar and playing it in DADGAD I was pleasantly surprised at how well it played and sounded - especially the trebles and so this guitar was further "exploration". I'm a convert. I have in the works a fan fretted instrument with 24.8" treble and 25.75" bass scale length which will be a further exploration.

Sam,

You are very kind. If Fliss ever gets tempted (I know she is a big Brook guitar fan) then I can do a very good price for her Cheltenham gave me the opportunity to play a lot of British and American handmades and "benchmark" where I was at. Fit and finish wise I have a long, long way to go but soundwidse there was only Andy Manson's and one of Richard Osbourne's guitars that "spoke" to me like mine do. That could just be that I have a very eccentric view of guitar sound though!

Colin,

I've always used that behind the bridge brace as that's what was on the Dermot McIlroy guitar I had that was the first inspiration (plus Stefan Sobell's) for my instruments. I think that Black Limba and Lutz would be a fabulous combination. I'm still trying to decide what "flavours" it is adding as each guitar you make takes your building subtly forward with other changes. On BoB C's website there is a Renato Bellucci custom classical guitar using Black Limba based on the 1968 Fleta mode and incorporating designs from the 1943 Hauser to improve the sustain of the guitar. Bob comments: "Based on my discussions with Renato, the guitar has incredible sustain in the trebles, and the basses are full and rounded." This is what I am hearing on mine currently. I'm hearing a little bit more fundemental balance in the guitars voice as well. My current "feel" for Black Limba is mahoganyesque with some Walnut flavours It works like a dream and is visually stunning.

If I could afford it I'd use two of the AKG's too

Ron,

Thank you. Now that my Cheltenham panic is over I'll copy that CD I promised long ago and mail it off to you.

Ken,

Thank you.

Yes - the soundhole is 106mm diameter (4.17"). It is part of my overall design though and goes with the big top arch, narrow X brace angle and forward shifted poition of the soundhole. The larger soundhole helps volume and projection on my guitars.

The "black objects" are the carbon-fibre flying buttress braces that let me do a free floating neck/fretboard and concentrate on bracing all of the top for sound. I learned these techniques from the building of Mike Doolin, Rick Turner and Howard Klepper. I just smile quietly to myself now when I read statements to the effect that the guitar's upper bout is tonally dead You can find out more abot the cf braces here on my website and also look at the guitar-cittern and harp-guitar build photo documentaries there.

Todd,

Thanks. You'll love working with the Limba. I suspect it would make an interesting Weiss as well if Bob had pieces big enough.

Bob,

Thanks. I plan to do a regular set of recordings to track how the sound changes.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010