I don't know about President, maybe Secretary of Conflict Resolution.
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:08 am ] |
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See, the sun did come up. Grumpy for President! |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:21 am ] |
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I don't know about President, maybe Secretary of Conflict Resolution. |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:10 am ] |
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I just hope he hasn't kissed off the forum again! We need him and his kind around here a lot more than he and his kind need us! |
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| Author: | old man [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:23 am ] |
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The way he signed off the last thread, if I were moderator, I wouldn't allow him back on. I agree we need him and I like Mario but I also desire some kind of civility. It irritates me that the rules we are asked to follow don't seem to apply the same way to those with great experience. Ron |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:04 am ] |
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First off, I need to say that this post is directed to every person (including me) who are part of this forum, yes I've called out two individuals but it's generally written to everyone. Ron it's not that the rules don't apply to those with great experience, it's just that he's chosen to ignore the rule for the sake of expressing his disgust with some people. I'm sure if we were to spend some time face to face with Mario we might actually find that he talks more freely than he does here on the forum, or any forum for that matter. Personally, I don't really care how the guy talks, or any one here for that matter, I bet most of the Aussie guys reel it in a fare amount (from my understanding of the Aussie culture, cussing is an art). Some people need to express themselves in the form of cussing, it's part of our language and I've learned to deal with it. Having said that, rules are rules yes, but no one should be banned from the forum for breaking the rule once. It's not like Mario spews cuss words in every thread and in fact I think he is civil. People don't loose their drivers license for speeding right, they get a warning or a ticket. I too hope Mario sticks around. He has a ton of experience and a lot of knowledge that few here have. Yes that's right, Few as in a small number. Yes he can be grumpy but so what. Get over it people, if you don't like the way the guy is just get over it. Now if Mario is reading this, he to can get over the fact that some people find him a little over the top or arrogant, so what, get over it. (honestly I think he has and doesn't car that much) There are no perfect people here, not one. We can all get along but we don't have to be the same or present ourselves "just how you like". Everyone needs to understand that we all want to learn more, even guys like Mario and Rick Turner who have a lot of experience want to learn more about this craft. Remember, you don't always have to be right and if you think you are, no one has to shove it in the face of someone else. When spending time on a forum like this, people must have some amount of thick skin otherwise their feelings will be hurt way to often when someone doesn't like your stuff. That's just how it is. Having said all this, I must say that I like everyone here. I have no issue with anyone. I may not like how some folks present themselves, but big deal I've gotten over it and have learned a ton about guitar building once I did get over it. So.....thick skin folks, thick skin and if you don't like it, just get over it. |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:04 am ] |
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[QUOTE=old man] The way he signed off the last thread, if I were moderator, I wouldn't allow him back on. I agree we need him and I like Mario but I also desire some kind of civility. It irritates me that the rules we are asked to follow don't seem to apply the same way to those with great experience. Ron[/QUOTE] Ron...I respectfully disagree that anyone should be removed because of this incident. Remember when we used to have an edit button?...it was removed after a member went into the archives and removed valuable information. To my knowledge, no one was ever kicked off the forum as a result. Instead, we all were punished. I leave it to you and others to decide which was a more damaging action to the OLF. It took me all of 2 seconds to recover from the "F-bomb"...I'm still suffering from "Edit Button Withdrawal". Please...Let's keep it real! |
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| Author: | old man [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:17 am ] |
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ok
Ron |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:26 am ] |
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I agree, it is way too easy to show offense in writing. No one is face to face, and it gives us all barriers behind which we can hide. There is no place for insults on a forum like this, but when insulted, it is better just to take it than increase the problem by delivering yet another insult. Sticks and stones, and all that. No one will think less of someone who does not participate in trading insults. Just let them go. It is very hard to finish a fight in writing. Unless you are a Lawyer.  As to bad language, find another word. The rules are good, and not that hard to follow. When I was in the service, every other word was not allowed here, but when I was in polite company, I learned to control it. Consider this forum polite company.
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| Author: | LanceK [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:28 am ] |
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Looks guys, no big debate here, just no cussing and for crying out loud of ALL words! "Whats that mean daddy?" I mean for real! Who wants to explain that to a 6 year old!
I don't know WHO reads this forum, I know I do and I also know my kids do. They are constantly browsing it on there own PC's, looking for ME! They also go to my guitar site and send me messages via the contacts page. How many other kids are reading? I don't know, what I do know is that I don't approve of that kind of language and I am pretty sure most parents would not want there kids reading it either. So, its really quite simple. Please don't cuss. Man, its not asking that much... Further more, I don't care (who) posts a bad word, I will delete it. There is not special treatment when it comes to that. |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:43 am ] |
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I've had my fair share of arguments here, and I try to learn from them because there's always a time when the frustration turns into being embarrassed. There's a learning theory called constructivism, formalized by Jean Piaget. In very simple terms, the driving idea is that we have different ways of getting to a desired outcome—and that's good because we are drawing from our other knowledge to do so (i.e. higher order thinking). The educator should facilitate the leaner's methods rather than demanding a particular pedagogy be used. "Education, for most people, means trying to lead the child to resemble the typical adult of his society . . . but for me and no one else, education means making creators. . . . You have to make inventors, innovators—not conformists." It's a good thing if someone has a different way of trying to learn how to make better guitars. Iron sharpening iron is different than iron trying shape iron like itself. |
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:43 am ] |
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Ya'll keep it quiet, I'm in the middle of my Sunday afternoon nap. Please vote for Grumpy! 
Oh yeah, announcement: Rally on the downtown square tonight at 6PM, Iriquois Falls. Grumpy for Pres! Free bluegrass music for all. JC and the Boys - Promo |
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| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:23 am ] |
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It's really pretty simple. Profanity is to be avoided when posting here at the OLF. It's a matter of fundamental respect for rules that are in place for the general good of the whole body. Believe it or not, no one needs to express themselves by cussing, but some choose to rather than put the effort into choosing alternative words to their default or habitual choices. Experience and reputation should have no bearing on whether a person should observe the rules and requests by the mods and owners of this or any forum when participating in exchanges. There are places on the net where they can go and cuss their heads off with no offense to anyone and they should seek a few out to get it out of their system if they need to. At a major guitar show a few years ago, i was amazed at the lak of professionalism shown by a group of builders as they stood around talking. They sounded like a bunch of construction workers on a job site rather than professionals at a venue representing the craft that they are supposedly masters of...and all within ear shot of potential customers....and some with children. I cleared myself of them, partly because of theie completely unprofessional language and partly because of the subject matter of the conversation as they gossiped about other builders...who were more skilled than an of them. This little gossip circle made up of the same guys has become a fixture at the major shows, but I guess they make each other feel bad as they poorly represent the trade. It's a simple matter of courtesy and consideration and both take a little bit of discipline, and self denial...which some folks will not invest for the simple fact that they feel that their desires and feeling are more important than those of others. Take it from a guy who could....and did....cuss the paint off the wall with no regard for where I was or who was present out of a combination of self centeredness and laziness. It can change if you want it to and are willing to take the measures to bring it about, but if it doesn't after it has been addressed, alot about the person is revealed. I lived offending people with my inconsiderate and self serving language for a long time and just decided it was time for me to start using the reasonably decent grasp I had on the English language to express my self instead. I grew up late and this was one of the last pieces of my childhood that I released my white-knuckled grip on. I can walk away from any exchange knowing that I did my best to consider the other person's positon and feelings and didn't resort to playground or intimidation tactics to try to back them off or convince them of my own. No post is ever placed by accident.....even with the absence of an edit button. There are a string of opportunities to edit anything prior to permanently posting so we have to assume that what is posted is intended...with the exception of typos and grammatical errors. I hate to see these threads show up after poor decisions made by someone...especially at such a great place for professionals to come and represent the craft and the industry that they are part of. All the best, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars |
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| Author: | davidmor [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:56 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Kevin Gallagher] At a major guitar show a few years ago, i was amazed at the lak of professionalism shown by a group of builders as they stood around talking. They sounded like a bunch of construction workers on a job site rather than professionals at a venue representing the craft that they are supposedly masters of...a All the best, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars[/QUOTE] As person who has spent almost 30 years as a PROFESSIONAL in the construction industry, that doesn't swear, I will refrain from expressing my immediate reaction I had when I read this. Lets just say that not all construction workers are the illiterate dolts that Hollywood likes to portray them as, or as the elites seem to think they are. Just because our collars are blue, that doesn't mean that we do nothing but drink beer, scratch ourselves, hoot and holler at passing women, or cuss like sailors. A lot of us are professionals and like to portray ourselves as such. As for swearing in the forums, the rules are crystal clear and nobody swears in a forum without knowing exactly what they are doing. Although I won't melt if I read an F-bomb, I would prefer that I didn't have to. |
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| Author: | A Peebels [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:25 pm ] |
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Now wait a minute... I was a sailor, and I don't cuss. Al |
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:26 pm ] |
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Good bye Grumpy. Come back anytime. As Kevin said, we've all done our share of cussin', it's just that this forum is for dis-cussin', guitars that is. All have cussed and fallen short. 
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| Author: | A Peebels [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:26 pm ] |
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Come to think of it, I'm also a construction worker. Al |
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| Author: | A Peebels [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:29 pm ] |
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Actually, I do cuss, a little... but not very often. Al
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| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:53 pm ] |
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David, Wow! That came out of left field. No offense intended since I grew up in the building trades and was shoulder to shoulder with construction workers in every field from electrical to roofing every day. My collar was blue when I went to work for the majority of my life, too....and it still is for that matter, so your immediate reaction was wasted and misdirected. The majority of the guys on the job sites were skilled craftsmen with little concern for monitoring their language or behavior and that was my intended point. It was their concern to demonstrate their professionalism with their hands, tools and experience and that's where it ended in most cases. I know you weren't referring to me as an elite since that's as far from true as could be and since you have no idea who I am. I understand that there are exceptions in every field and I simply chose one that i was completely familiar with and exposed to for many years. You can find guys using the same lazy profanity in a meeting room on Wall Street or in any major corporation..in the whitest of whit collar venues...so there's not too much to worry about for you being stamped with the stigma of a streotype. I came to realize after getting to know some very wealthy and successful high end business people in New York, Boston and LA that education does not increase integrity, courtesy or professionalism in anyone...no matter what field you're in. Some of the most honest and considerate guys I've even met are blue collar guys just like you and me, but the facts are the facts. I appreciate your position in defending those who are exceptions, but you'd honestly have to admit that you're not the norm in the trades...especially on the job site. I still have loads of friends who are buildiers, contractors and iron workers and they've come to respect me and the changes I've made enough to modify their language significantly when they visit, but not so much on the job. Relax and see where I'm coming from. Sorry it offended you, but it's where I come from and what I know so we're from the same camp. Sure, nobody's going to melt from hearing the F-bomb, but I just try to let people know that it does much less for them than thinking before they speak will. It does far less to damage us than it does to damage the perception that people have of those who throw it around indiscriminately and inappropriately. Regards, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars |
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| Author: | Terry Stowell [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:57 pm ] |
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Perhaps we should see if Peter and other pinless users would let us use or liscence their designs. Diversion is good. |
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| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:57 pm ] |
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I've never been a sailor or spent any time around sailors so I couldn't use that analogy...I just picked one that I knew to be real from experience. Regards, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:10 pm ] |
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That's it, I'm a Pinhead! Don't know yet if I'm a 5* pinhead or a 3* pinhead, but I'm pretty sure I'm not slotted. 
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| Author: | old man [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:14 pm ] |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:19 pm ] |
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Wow, Waddy, that is funny
Good nite all. |
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