Official Luthiers Forum!

I've been using those cheap detail spray guns from Harbor Freight to spray my guitars. A long time ago I bought a bunch of them for like $8 each thinking they're pretty much disposable; if I got one guitar finished per gun I was doing OK.

Well now I've run out and am looking to step up to something not quite so disposable. Any recommendations? I am using a small 2HP compressor which gives me 5 SCFM @90psi, 6@40.

First off let me say that if you had to dispose of the gun after one guitar, even with the HF touch-up gun then you need to refine your daily maintenance. I got 4 years of service out of mine.

Like a good politician; To avoid answering your question you need to set a $ limit and at 5 at 90 you will still be looking at a standard gun or maybe some mid line HVLP guns Deblis comes to mind but check the air consumption to be sure you can run what ever gun you choose. It is better to have excess air available than to be on the edge of your capacity.

Campbell Hausfeld $32 at Amazon.

Been using this for a couple of years to spray Nitro.

I have a PC Gravity feed too, but the tip was the wrong size, so I have no real feel for it.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

I just got started with HVLP guns this year, so my experience is
limited to the Grizzly guns I have.  They sell a pair (one large,
1.4mm tip, the other smaller maybe 0.8mm tip..?) with metal cups for
~$50. 



I've gone through a gallon of pre-cat conversion varnish without
clogging problems (thorough clean with lacquer thinner every
time).  They have a pressure regulator right on the handle, nice
feature.

Mine looks identical to the Campbell Hausfield above, except it is a Badger 400 from Dixieart.  Its great for small jobs like instruments although it seems to plug up easily.  I've been told by the experienced folks that a gravity fed gun is superior (uses less material) to the suction feed.  I'm on the lookout for a better gun.  Wouldn't we all like a Satay, but I'll have to settle for something less.  I look forward to recommendations as well.

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A higher purpose for wood.
Rich Smith
Issaquah, WA

    I'd recommend spending a little more initially for an industry standard
gun. They spray with much higher consistency and have much more finely
adjustable control over the spray pattern and material flow.

    No matter what anybody tells you, the smoother the material goes onto
the surface, the more easily and efficiently it can be worked to the desired
results.

    I use SATA and AccuSpray HVLP guns and have had some running for
more than a decade without a full rebuild. I clean them regularly and
completely disassamble and clean individual parts before reassembling.

    My favorite gun is a SATA HVLP/2000 which runs between $350 and
$400, but it's well worth it.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

Ricardo, What were you spraying through the CH?

Using McFadden's Instrument Lacquer (nitro), I've had no problem with clogging at all.

There is a breather hole that must remain clear, I keep a toothpick nearby and keep an eye on that. Using a two lung 20 Gallon compressor and a watertrap works well.

Just wondering what you were spraying?

When I finish spraying for the day, I wipe down with Lacquer Thinner, and rinse and wipe the can, then spray some LT through the gun. Going strong for two years no upkeep at all. Knock on rosewood. I want to say it has a 1.8 mm tip which is important.

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Bruce, I spray water-based lacquer (Colortone from Stewmac).  The clogging takes place after I rinse it out.  Seems I have to take it apart and clean everything and reassemble.  A real pain cause you do coats two hours apart (3 - 4 a day).

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A higher purpose for wood.
Rich Smith
Issaquah, WA

I have two Binks 2001 guns that I have been using for about 8 years now. I spray McFaddens nitro at about 18 psi. works great !! The only problem I have had is with the rubber stem packing breaking down and getting into  the lacquer. That problem vanished when I switched to teflon packings.

I clean my guns once every two years or so. The rest of the time I just hang them up with the lacquer in. When it runs out I fill them up again.

They are expensive but worth every penny.

Mark

Binks all the way....the 2001 is great but I wish I had gotten an HVLP as the automotive laquer I use on furniture costs me about $120 a gallon to shoot and the efficiency of an HVLP would certainly save me a few bucks...next big project where I have to shoot a few gallons I will get one!

http://search.cartserver.com/search/search.cgi?cartid=a-6834 &category=datapaint&maxhits=20&keywords=BIN-6202 -1202-8

what size tips are you using on your quality HVLP guns? Compressor size?

Moving into a new shop and looking to upgrade my spray equipment.

[QUOTE=Ricardo]Bruce, I spray water-based lacquer (Colortone from
Stewmac).  The clogging takes place after I rinse it out. 
Seems I have to take it apart and clean everything and
reassemble.  A real pain cause you do coats two hours apart (3 - 4
a day).
[/QUOTE]



Just guessing here, but you probably don't have to clean it between
every coat.  But if you're spraying all day, you probably do want
to clean it every 4 hours or so.  Some guns allow you to shoot
only air with a partial pull of the trigger, I do this in between coats
so that I don't have excess finish sitting in the nozzle of the gun
trying to harden while I'm waiting.



I spray a conversion varnish that is hard to the touch in 10 minutes,
so I'll spray a couple of tack coats 10 minutes apart, then I actually
level sand after 60 minutes and spray again.  I can leave the
varnish in the cup/gun for about 4 hours before I notice the flow is
not all that great...and that's more a function of what I'm spraying
rather than the gun itself.  So I'll clean it up after 4 hours no
matter how many coats I spray.



And when I clean it, I do take it completely apart and clean off
everything with lacquer thinner, let the tip and nozzle soak for 10
minutes or so, scrub it all with a bristle brush, then blast it with
compressed air.  I don't even think twice about it.

From what I understand, cleaning procedures are not as rigorous when
using nitro, because any dry residues will always just dissolve in
thinner.  This is not the case with most other finish materials.

Thanks for all the suggestions. It looks like I don't really have enough air for most of the nice guns. I may just hold out until I can get a nicer compressor.

On Mario's advice, I bought a Devilbitouch up SRi gun and how nice to use a good gun. This thing really excells and made quite an improvment in my finishing. I recommend getting the larger cup it you go with it though if you think you may be spraying more than a single guitar at one time.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Thanks for the advise.... im trying to decide wether to get a sata minijet or one of the SRI guns mentioned by mario in the past or the wonderful John how here. Both are HVLP gravity type. Ive always used a mid range (quality) syphon type gun off a smallish compressor, and will continue to use that same compressor on my new guns.

Does anyone know about needle size is best? I think there is 0.8, 1, 1.2, 1.4mm... Im always spraying nitro thined by 50%, or shellac sealer wich is about a 2lb cut.

Many thanks in advance!

 

 

 

This is just a question, but how come no one uses the Air Assisted, Airless?  My son, who is in the custom cabinet business, says it is the least wasteful process he has ever seen for spraying.  His comment to me was, if you spray a flat surface, there is zero overspray - what you spray on the surface stays there.  Now you are going to have some, on small surfaces, like necks, etc, but he said it is way better than air or HVLP.  Initial cost is a bit more, and you do have to fill the hose with product, but if you use a short hose, that reduces the wasted product.  I know it is more expensive than just buying a gun, but if you do a lot of finishing, seems like a good way to go.  He recommends the Kremlin system.  Says they are available on ebay and other places used for not too much.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

[QUOTE=erikbojerik]
I spray a conversion varnish that is hard to the touch in 10 minutes........
[/QUOTE] erikbojerik,
What do you use?

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Search ebay for used Binks Model #7 or DeVilbis JGA automotive spray guns. They have both been industry standard guns for nearly 40 years. My two guns are 35+ years old and work flawlessly. They aren't HVLP but they sure lay down a sweet coat. Parts & rebuild kits are still readily available for either gun.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Tim, What size tips are those guns and if you are spraying nitro how much do you cut it?

_________________
http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Bruce, Both of these guns have tips, fluid nozzles and needles set up to spray automotive enamels. These were my spray guns from a past life and are still quite functional today ;) I will have to tear them down to get the all of the numbers off of all the parts if you are interested? Just let me know which gun you need numbers from? Otherwise you can just go to a paint store and tell them what you are spraying and they can sell or tell you the appropriate numbers of all three components.

I only thinned nitro about 10% - 20% with Butyl Acetate when I was shooting it and it sprayed nicely out of either gun. I am now shooting Urethane and it is about the same viscosity as nitro and I thin it 5% - 10% with Butyl Acetate.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

These guns new run a couple hundred to three hundred. I found a used one on Ebay with no nozzle, and another for about sixty bucks.

I wrote the numbers down for later if I decide to get a bigger gun. I usally have to load my small CH with nitro twice to get through one session. So a larger capacity would make it a bit easier. The size is really handy though.

I was guessing these guns would have larger fluid tips. I seem to have to thin a bit more than you did on the nitro. My guess is 30 percent reducer/solvent to 70 percent nitro. If I went up in size of the tip, that would allow me to shoot with less thinner.

My little gun lays down a beautiful layer of glossy nitro, sounds like yours does too. What are you shooting now Tim?

_________________
http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Bruce,
I am shooting McFaddens two part catalyzed Urethane Lacquer. Have been for about four years now and I love it. It sprays much like nitro but it builds really fast so you have to be careful not to lay it down to heavy. Its really nasty stuff and you need a high quality respirator and a good booth with adequate airflow.

_________________
tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

I used old tried and true Binks #7's for years until the basecoat/clearcoat stuff came along in automotive. I then moved to the Binks Gold 7 (call me a dinosaur) but I fanally came to my senses and bought a Sata Red Jet. I bought another about a month later. Very good guns. Well worth the initial investment, they atomize so much better then the old tech guns and they hold up forever before rebuilds. I plan to add a Sata RP soon. I'm still not keen to HVLP yet.