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| Minor Finish Repair Question http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=13773 |
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| Author: | Wooden [ Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:11 am ] |
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Someone close to me recently purchased a Handbuilt Acoustic Finished with Catalyzed Urethane. He was doing something to the Guitar and the Low E String popped over the side and left an "impression" in the finish of a Low E String on the side of the headstock. I am a Guitar Repair Tech and aspiring Luthier. For removing fine scratches and haze I use Kit Scratch Out in the yellow bottle and it works wonderfully. I tried that and it slightly improved after 10 or 15 applications. I work slowly and carefully. I was given advice by a Luthier to use sandpaper and he listed the grades starting at 600 ending at 2000 and then using a heavy duty car wax and I'm thinking some kind of clearcoat and buffing it out with a drill and a buffer. Or perhaps with a Dremel or hand buffing. Is it possible to purchase a small container of Catalyzed Urethane (The Good Stuff) and apply that somehow? Most people would probably just leave it as this is a semi common occurrence (The Low or High E popping over the edge). It left a 1/4" mark at an angle on the side of the headstock. and this guy is super fanatically anal and I owe him a favor. So, I came here where the experts are. Can anyone give me any advice to repair it so it looks like it did when it left the Luthier who built it? He won't send it back there obviously. When Guitars get played and worked on and strings get changed things happen. What is important is sound, playability and overall construction. This is purely cosmetic but if it can be done I will do it. Any advice? I would so appreciate it! |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:17 am ] |
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CA (super glue) is the fix for small dings in Catalyzed Urethane. I'd build it up a bit then scrape it flush with a razor blade. Then go to your sanding techniques. Don't try to sand it flush from the beginning or you'll roll down into the finish and possibly sand through (You REALLY don't want to do that repair). A couple of drops of thin CA and you'll be golden. BTW: Welcome to the OLF. Don't be a stranger. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:00 am ] |
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Welcome to the OLF, Wooden. I'll let others give this kind of advice. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:00 am ] |
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Paul is dead on on this repair. But just in case! you want to put a piece of scotch tape at each end of your razorblade to prevent gouging the good finish. Draw a small bur on the part of the razor exposed for scraping. take your time scrapping to flush to the film. Oh and use either a medium thin or thin CA. the thick hardware store stuff may haze before it cures out. |
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| Author: | Louis Freilicher [ Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:49 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Wooden] For removing fine scratches and haze I use Kit Scratch Out in the yellow bottle and it works wonderfully. [/QUOTE] I would stay away from this product as I'm pretty sure it contains silicon and will make any future repairs much more difficult if not impossible. Stick with the polishing products from Meguires. Louis |
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| Author: | MarkW [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:33 am ] |
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I agree that CA is the best for this repair. Keep in mind though that this type of fill on a catalyzed urethane finsh is rarely "invisible". How obvious the fill will be (think witness line) will depend on what color that is under the clear coats. If this guy is that fanatical then you may be setting yourself up for disappointment. Personally I'd pass on it and try to experiment later when you can acquire a cheap test instrument. |
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| Author: | Compurocker [ Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:22 pm ] |
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An instrument is made to be played. We are imperfect human beings with instruments that could not be 100 percent perfect to begin with. Close maybe! If you handle an instrument almost everyday things happen. Changing Strings things can happen! If you are a musician your goal is to create and express and jam! With regular use things will happen. That is life. Love marks...A little bump, a scratch, so what... Does the Guitar play and sound great? These are the important things. I am not saying beat your Guitar up but expect things will happen. It doesn't matter. That is minor cosmetic stuff. Meguires is the stuff but with CA or UV this stuff is great. Even Taylor uses Turtlewax Shine in a bottle and suggests it on their road tours. I stay away from Silicon that is what makes Turtlewax/KIT special. I know many Techs who use it and have for years! Very gentle on today's finishes even plastics.
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| Author: | Compurocker [ Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:12 am ] |
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KIT Scratch Remover is not designed as a wax or polish but a fine scratch remover who not only I but several other Techs I know use for scratch removal and apparently it is not made with Silicon. The Meguiars is an excellent product which mimics the KIT Scratch Out product. As we all know many of todays Guitar polishes contain Silicon. All is not lost if a customer uses these. They are not an always and forever coating! |
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| Author: | Louis Freilicher [ Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:28 am ] |
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I tested out the KIT stuff while polishing out some finish repairs on a d-18. I converted this guitar back to right handed from a previous conversion for a lefty. I was touching up some pic wear from lefty play with no pick guard. The product worked very well. As I polished out the face of the guitar I noticed a few spots that needed additional drop filling to come up level with the surrounding finish. I scuff sanded the area and began to drop fill the low spots and the lacquer immediately fish eyed and would not adhere to the finish in this area. That’s enough for me to not recommend this product when there are other products that work just as well with no risk of potentially contaminating the finish for future restorers. Louis |
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| Author: | Compurocker [ Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:45 am ] |
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So for the people who don't know and polish their guitars with a product which contains Silicon and the Techs who use it for fine scratch removal how do you remove the silicon? Have you verified the Meguiar's as not having Silicon? I also thought about using Color-Tone Polishing Compounds from the Stewart MacDonald Catalog for removing scratches in a finish. The guitar I am currently working on is finished with Catalyzed Urethane. Pretty much the only time the Silicon gets in the way is when a drop-fill needs to be done or a re-finish. This is not all that often but why use something that will give you problems later just in case!  I have a feeling I am gouing to learn a lot here! 
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| Author: | Don A [ Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:23 am ] |
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I can't help with the silicon removal but the Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) at Maguiars site indicate that the Glaze (7) and Swirl Remover (10) don't contain silicon. |
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| Author: | Don A [ Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:31 am ] |
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[edit] Post above should be silicone, not silicon. |
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| Author: | Compurocker [ Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:19 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Louis4052] [QUOTE=Wooden] For removing fine scratches and haze I use Kit Scratch Out in the yellow bottle and it works wonderfully. [/QUOTE] I just received an e-mail from the head of KIT Car Product Sales and I quote"kit Scratch out does NOT contain Silicon" from Kristin Hrudka, Human Services for kit Car car products who investigated this matter for me. I am truly sorry to hear of your experience but perhaps someone used a different product prior to your use of kit Scratch Out or maybe even after. In any event I personally know several Guitar techs that have used kit Scratch out at length for many different jobs and suffered no ill effects whatsoever. Good luck in all your endeavors Louis. Jeff
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| Author: | Compurocker [ Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:14 am ] |
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Two hours after being told by kit there is no Silicone in kit Scratch Out I get an e-mail saying I AM VERY SORRY BUT IT DOES CONTAIN SILICONE!!! Jeff |
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| Author: | Compurocker [ Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:38 am ] |
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Is there a way to remove Silicone and start over using polishes and cleaners that do not contain Silicone? Is it even necessary? In the old days all guitar polishes, cleaners, scratch removers etc.were made with Silicone? What should I do? Opinions, Options??? 
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:19 am ] |
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In the other silicone thread, there were a couple of chemicals that would dissolve silicone residue. Don't know what they would do to the finish. Hexane was one, if I'm not mistaken. Go to that thread, though, and read through. |
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| Author: | Compurocker [ Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:27 am ] |
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Well folks come to find out my friend was also using a Guitar Polish which contained Silicone! Will the madness never end?! LOL Thankfully it is not a terribly expensive Guitar! In any event I advised him if he must wax his Guitar us Carnuba an clean with water and a nice soft cotton/flannel cloth or Micro Fibre cloth like Dunlop. For me it will be Meguiars and Stew Mac Cleaners and polishers. Thankfully I have not had to remove any scratches or seriously clean my main Guitar before learning of Meguiars and Stewart MacDonald! Good news for those of you who have used Silicon laced products it is called: DSR5:http://dsr5.com/intro.htm Apparently this stuff works wonders and will not harm a hardened Guitar Finish as it is suggested for fine wood furniture and the like. SO A Solution and a learning mistake. For some people this won't matter as they will never refinish or drop fill a guitar or have their guitar(s) refinished or drop filled! I wonder what people do and did when they ran or run into this situation?
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| Author: | Compurocker [ Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:44 am ] |
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I would think Naphtha would remove Silicone residue from Polish as well. Does anyone know? |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:54 am ] |
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Wow, DSR5 seems like something that should be in every shop. Safe for skin, vapors not harmful. Seems hard to beat for adhesive removal and clean up from silicone accidents. Surly better than Naptha, which is not so bad, but is definitely not good for you either. |
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The only negative I can see here is if the Guitar needs to be drop filled or refinished. There are so many Guitar Polishes which contain Silicone. Am I right here? I am worried??? Can the Silicon be removed? Should it? Or shall I just let it be. This is not a Guitar I or anyone else will be refinishing or drop filling as far as I can see. I looked at a lot of wooden Instrument (Guitars Included) Polishes and scratch removers and more than half had Silicon. What do you all think?