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| Tried New Rosette Design(pics) http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=13846 |
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| Author: | LuthierSupplier [ Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:47 am ] |
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Hi all, Thought I'd share a new rosette I'm trying out for a guitar I'm building for a friend. It is a new technique I learned from Michael Bashkin of bashkinguitars.com. Can anyone guess the method for getting this sunburst look on this rosette? It is Koa with a light coat of shellac on it. 
Tracy |
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| Author: | Dean [ Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:51 am ] |
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my guess is hot sand. dean |
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:56 am ] |
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Don't know the method, but it looks really nice. Great job Tracy. 
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| Author: | Tom Dowey [ Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:48 am ] |
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It looks very cool. But I would guess with Hesh, Fire/flame? |
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| Author: | LuthierSupplier [ Mon Oct 01, 2007 5:51 am ] |
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Very good Dean, it is hot sand! Rolling it through hot sand vertically does this. You can increase the flame on the rosette by adding more sand so it covers more of the rosette as you roll it through. Very cool technique. I'll be doing this on the Koa endwedge also to give it a matching affect. Thanks for all the nice comments! Tracy |
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| Author: | nathan c [ Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:27 am ] |
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Very cool look Tracy. I saw David Marks use the heated sand to color some leaves used for marquetry. |
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| Author: | Allen McFarlen [ Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:17 am ] |
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Thanks for shown us that. I learn something new here every day. |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:46 am ] |
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I really like that. I'm working on a design that's asymetrical, too. Thinner bans on the inside, wider on the outside. My inside will probably be black, red, black, all .010", and the outside will be rosewood, unknown, rosewood, all .020". I'm looking for a wood that has a color value somewhere between maple and koa for the middle. Anyway, I really like the shading effect. Can you say more about hot sand? I've never heard of it. |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:56 am ] |
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Sunburst Rosette! 
Colin |
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| Author: | LuthierSupplier [ Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:24 am ] |
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I knew you'd like that Colin  May even call it the "Colin Special" 
James, the hot sand technique just means to get about 1 cup of sand from wherever, and put it in a pan. Heat it up over the stove until it is extremely hot. Then roll the rosette in the hot sand until cooked, I mean done.  Just wear some cloth gloves so your hands don't burn. Does that explain? I like your idea of a rosette. Maybe mahogany or Eucalyptus may work for you?
Tracy |
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| Author: | Dean [ Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:34 pm ] |
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The only problems i've ever had with the hot sand technique is that it drains 100% of moisture out of the wood. your rosette (or other inlay) may be smaller from shrinkage as a result. Dean |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:53 pm ] |
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hmmm... I wonder then... how could you also achieve this look on the interior as well. I bet you could make a "little sand box" to fit on your bending pipe and get that effect from both sides. |
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| Author: | Dave Anderson [ Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:06 pm ] |
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I like sunbursts a lot so I like that effect a lot. Thanks Tracy. I got to try this! 
It looks really cool! 
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:39 am ] |
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Hey... Is this color just on the surface? How far does it go into the wood? Meaning if you leave the rosette proud of the top and then sand it does it sand off? And I guess the same concerns would be there during finish sanding. |
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| Author: | csmonty [ Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:51 am ] |
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Man that's a cool looking effect. Very subtle. How do people think of these things? |
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| Author: | LuthierSupplier [ Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:37 am ] |
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Thanks guys! Brock, very cool idea on how to sunburst a whole guitar using this method. You could just create a 20" x 20" sand pit and put some propane burners under it. Then just burn the sides to the depth you want. the burn does go all the way through the wood, so if you sand it, it does not sand off. However, it will sand off in areas that are further in because it is not burned all the way through. Not sure it will work for bursting a whole guitar. I would inlay the rosette slightly lower than flush, then sand down to the rosette and stop as soon as you touch the rosette. I haven't inlayed this rosette yet, but I will put in in a test top first. I'll let you know how it turns out. Tracy |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:04 am ] |
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Well... that is a good idea too, but what I meant was if you want to acheive the burst look on the interior edge of the rosette you might be able to rig up some kind of curved sandbox (as in on your bending pipe) that would let you work the inside of the ring to match the outside. thanks for showing us this. I am definitely interested to see how this executes and hearing about what nuances there are to getting it inlaid and finish sanded. |
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| Author: | Lars Rasmussen [ Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:14 am ] |
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Nice looking rosette! The sand technique is very common in marquetry, a guy at the education I was in did this cabinet using the technique A LOT! Just thought id show these pics... 
What can you say, 1050(!) hours!! His website: http://kjetilharket.no/en/ |
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:00 pm ] |
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That is a nice effect. Personally, I wouldn't use the term "sunburst" to describe it. I despise sunbursts, but I also think the term is somewhat overused. That is to say, there are various subtle and tasteful toning and shading techniques I've seen that are very nice and which I think have a very different aesthetic effect than a true sunburst (i.e. they don't make me nauseous like sunbursts, black light posters, velvet paintings, and the like ). This, to me, is one of those - a nice, tasteful shading effect.
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| Author: | LuthierSupplier [ Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:31 am ] |
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Todd, good point on the terminology. I just couldn't think of a word that described it. But I really like "shading" as the right term for this. At our Luthiers meeting we discussed using different types of wood, and it was brought up that using highly figured woods in this technique actually brings out the figure more. I would suspect that a high flamed piece of Koa or Maple would look fantastic. Tracy |
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| Author: | Parser [ Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:09 am ] |
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Awesome! pike and perch marquetry! Very cool and really well done. |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:30 am ] |
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Todd, you don't like paintings on velvet? I don't get that....
You ever see a burst done by Kim Walker? Really nice stuff...not at all overpowering. |
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