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What up with this?
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=13922		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  bob J [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:10 am ]
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Gibson, I've been told, is a well respected production line guit co. tht should have all or most of the information I've had gifted here by our members.

SO, if the're so smart, why do some of their guitars have pick guards the size of a small dog. I've recently seen Emily Lou and patty Griffin and both, i Believe play the same model,don't know which one except it looks like a Dred type size given the height of the sides and frontal looks (has the typical large roundish lower bout. AND THE PICK-GUARD IS HUGE. I guess pulling every bit of sound from their tops is not a priority.

Why do they use these pickguards from hell?
Author:  John Lewis [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:25 am ]
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It's a country thang, yall
Author:  David Collins [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:32 am ]
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Don't tell me you ever thought Gibson was selling guitars by their tone.....
Author:  Bill Bergman [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:19 am ]
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And why doesn't everybody just use clear plastic?
Author:  Jamie M [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:49 am ]
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Sometimes it's about what the artist wants, and it's up to the company
(read..."Luthier") to deliver.

Jamie
Author:  David Collins [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:55 am ]
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Face it folks, there is probably about 2%-3% of the market that buy guitars
based purely on tone and playability. The vast majority choose on probably
40%-50% tone, the rest based on appearance and branding/prestige. And
who can blame them. When someone is playing with a two guitar, bass,
drums, and keys band, who can tell the difference between a phenomenal
guitar and a pretty good one. Everyone has to set their own priorities, and
stage presence and aesthetics is no less legitimate than others.

That's the way that it is. Most folks hear what they want to hear when they
buy what they want to see (or be seen with).

Pickguards are cool. Just look at the Everly Brothers.
Author:  KenH [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:59 am ]
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Lets face it.... people are attracted to bling. The one guitar I recently built with all of the inlays and bling draws alot of attention, but it is not he best sounding guitar I have built so far.  It doesnt matter to most people, they just like the bling.


Gibson is cashing in on this every day.
Author:  A Peebels [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:59 am ]
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But....Target has its place in the retail world.

Al
Author:  A Peebels [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:07 am ]
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And...Unfortunately there are more Target customers than Neiman Marcus customers. The same holds true for guitars. I would bet that there are 20 cheap plywood imports for every quality solid wood factory guitar, and 20 quality solid wood guitars for every luthier made guitar.

Al
Author:  David Collins [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:03 am ]
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Hey, if I need Huggies, Charmin, Fruit of the Looms, and Tidy Cat,
something tells me I won't be heading over to Neiman Marcus.

Side note - If you know any luthier who's buying $500 blue jeans at
Neiman Marcus, you know they're packing something other than
tonewood stored in the guitars they're shipping.


Another note - I know nothing of Neiman Marcus so I just looked at their
web site. You can sort their jean selection by designer, fit or pocket
style. I'll bet "fit" is the least used criteria of the three.
Designer / Manufacturer, fit / tone, pocket / pickguard. I think
Gibson's design and marketing shares much more in common with
Neimann Marcus than you may think.

I often equate Gibson today with Harley Davidson. Richard Teerlink, who
is often accredited with bringing Harley back from near failure, is well
known for making it clear that Harley Davidson does not sell motorcycles.
They sell a lifestyle. They sell freedom, they sell power, they sell America,
they sell prestige. They also sell more in accessories, T-shirts, and teddy
bears than they do motorcycles.

Gibson is selling an image, a lifestyle. They tripled their prices while
quality control fell to nothing, and dropped any dealer that wouldn't
cooperate with the way they wanted their product pushed. There may be
the occasional Gibson made today that sounds great, though not very
often.

Those distinctive pickguards and the logo are all they have to keep those
guitars selling.
Author:  James W B [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:40 am ]
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Well said David.I`ll be up in Ann Arbor in December.Hoping to stop by and see you again.              James     & nbsp;         & nbsp;   
Author:  Billy T [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:46 am ]
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    Gibson is one of my least favorite sounding acoustic guitars!

    Electrics..... Well! Everybody is copying Gibson but, their Acoustics, leaves something to be desired!

    The Gibson makes a good Wack-Bang guitar, but that's because they're so dead!

(Don't even get me started on Fender Acoustics PU!)
Author:  David Collins [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:36 am ]
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Don't get me wrong. I consider the Gibsons of the 30's and 40's some of the
best sounding flat tops ever made. I'd take most Gibsons of that era over the
Martin equivilent. I've played and worked on a whole lot of them, and that
era of Gibson flat tops is what I've studied more than any other guitar.
Unfortunately, I see the stuff they are putting out today as really
substandard in many ways, and honestly feel the only thing they really have
to sell today is their brand.
Author:  FishtownMike [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:22 pm ]
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Why do we even need pick guards? When I play my pick never strikes the top. Does yours? Just wondering.
Author:  Doug-Guitar-Buckler [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:30 pm ]
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[QUOTE=FishtownMike]Why do we even need pick guards? When I play my pick never strikes the top. Does yours? Just wondering.[/QUOTE]


Yes indeed Mike, over the years some of my guitars have accumulated a lot of scratches on the pickguard. I suppose poor technique is the culprit, but sometimes it is bound to happen. Also, if you play a lot of fingerstyle and use your pinky as a brace, the top of the guitar can really take a lot of abuse over time. In these cases a pickguard is useful.

Author:  Ray Pepalis [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:30 pm ]
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Why do we even need picks? Don't we have one on each finger?

Ray
Author:  clavin [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:39 pm ]
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Buy-Lavin-Inlay-Now-Guys!!!

Hey it was worth a shot!!.....Try doing that with "Bordeaux..."


Eh hem, (sorry Paul!!)

You know next to me your my favorite inlayer!!
Author:  Mike Mahar [ Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:46 am ]
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Ah, The Gibson sound vs the Martin sound. I've been in quite a few of those debates. I'm a Martin style guy. But, it does show us how hard lutherie can be when well meaning guitarists can disagree so completely on what a guitar is "supposed" to sound like.

As for the pickguard, Willie Nelson's guitar doesn't have a pick guard and you can see though the top in several places. If I were a "working" musician, I might just want a really big pick guard. Some theories on guitar sound speculate that all the sound comes from below the X and what you do above that point doesn't really matter. It would be easy enough to test. Take a guitar that has no pickguard and get a bunch of pickguards of different sizes and weights. Us Post-It glue to mount them and try them all out.
Author:  EricKeller [ Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:49 am ]
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I'm still a little annoyed about my Gibson J-50, it was an over-priced, over-braced piece of junk. I think the pickguard weighed as much as the rest of the top.

Anyway, I'm amused with the ad they have been running in Guitar Player magazine, which shows a guy from their custom shop holding a new guitar and spraying the back with CA accelerator. We all know that many guitars need little repairs during construction, but it seems strange that they would show a repair on a new guitar as evidence of their craftsmanship.
Author:  Chas Freeborn [ Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:49 am ]
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My guess is that they're matching the look of the originals; in the case of
Emmy Lou's and Nancy G's guitars it would be the J-200.
Not my choice of pickguard design or guitar model for that matter, but they
were good enough for Rev. Gary Davis in his day.
-C
Author:  MSpencer [ Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:35 pm ]
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I like the Gibson guitar body shapes and styles, however I don't care much for their bracing, thicknessing,pick guards and resulting overall sound. I like the way they look not the way they sound. That addresses the orginals. I have been building the J-35 style Gibson on my last 5 and with some changes and TLC they can both look and sound awesome. Now that I am back in the shop for Fall and Winter I am ordering the J-185 and L-00 molds and plans.

Mike
White Oak, Texas
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:13 pm ]
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[QUOTE=MSpencer]Now that I am back in the shop for Fall and Winter I am ordering the J-185 and L-00 molds and plans.
[/QUOTE]


Hi Mike,


Where are L-00 plans available?


Thx


Glenn
Author:  Billy T [ Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:22 pm ]
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[quote]If I am going to get into a bar room fight there is nothing better to have in your hands (guitar wise) than a J-50 with a Guild being a close second........[/quote]

I'd put my money on the H&K 93!

   Pickguards are needed for strummers for sure! Light players ...well. It's interesting that Gibson has a big pickguard on there acoustics and their acoustics require more "umph" to play.

     Some of the need for a pickguard comes from playing the guitar at an angle making strikes much more likely. Also intensity, playing harder in general means the pick is place more into the strings. I don't really like pickguards for apperance sake.
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