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| Fitting neck cheeks with a sanding stick http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=1401 |
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| Author: | Tim McKnight [ Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:02 pm ] |
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I set 9 necks today (mortise & tennon) which is a job that I don't look forward to. I don't mind setting the 3 axis' but I dread getting a nice clean line where the cheeks meet the body. It seems that most of my sides sets have an ever so slight radis to them and this makes the job more difficult to fit the cheeks. The neck tends to rock when fitting them. They say that "necessity is the mother of all inventions" so I put my thinking cap on and came up with a tool that really simplified the task. I cut a 3/4" x 3/4" x 12" piece of wood. Then I took it to the belt sander and sanded a convex curve on one edge about 6" long. Next I glued a piece of 120 grit cloth backed sand paper to the convex radius. Now I have a sanding stick that makes it easy to sand a slight concave shape into the cheeks of the necks and make a perfect fit to the side. How do y'all go about fitting the cheek line? |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:20 pm ] |
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I'm getting ready to try something that Mr Matt Gage told me about. I've always slipped a thin strip of sand paper into that joint and pulled it out, back toward the heel cap, this perfects the joint real nice, but also adds back set, so you must beware -- Matt put me in the (KNOW) about a new (AT LEAST TO ME) technique. Use PA back paper and stick the sanding paper TO the body! DHO! Then you simply slide the neck in from the top if the joint and as is slides across the abrasive it with make a perfect joint to what ever radius your body is. -- GENIUS--- |
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| Author: | Dave Rector [ Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:29 pm ] |
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Lance, that's how Frank Finnochio dies it as well. I think it is on his videos. I know he teaches that method in his class. |
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| Author: | Sprockett [ Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:34 pm ] |
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Lance I love those simple ideas, what grit paper is he using?? I think I'm going to try that one. Thanks -Paul- |
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| Author: | BruceH [ Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:14 pm ] |
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Lance, Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't this method add back set also? When you slide the neck in from the top, the heel would slide the full width of the side while the rest of the cheek would travel progressively less. The top of the cheek would get almost no sanding. I'm struggling with this too - I spent about 4 hours this week fitting one neck. I think I'll try an adjustable neck on my next. BruceH |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Sat Mar 19, 2005 4:31 pm ] |
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No, this method gets the neck pretty even all the way across if you don't put downward pressure in any one spot. It takes a little practice to not sand too much in one spot, but once you have it down it works very well. Frank usually does it in a couple of passes, first with 80 grit, then with 120. The method also involves taking a chisel and putting a little relief on the face of the neck in by the tenon before you start sanding. |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:40 am ] |
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That method will only work if the radius of the sides is constant. And as some have pointed out, the bottom of the heel gets sanded more than the top. I used to do a lot of that stuff, but learned recently the importance of getting the sides dead flat in that area.it's 10 times easier to get a great neck/body joint when the body is flat there. It doesn't need to affect the curve of the guitar shape noticeably. That's why Bill Cumpiano shows how he flattens that area carefully before setting the neck. Flat on flat works better. You don't have to sand and sand, chasing the perfect fit until the 14th fret is 1/8" into the body. |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:48 am ] |
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YES!!! I forgot to mention that... (sort of a big thing to miss) but you are absolutely right. The top of the guitar under the heel is flattened before you use this trick. |
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| Author: | Tim McKnight [ Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:07 am ] |
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The problem I run into is when scraping / sanding the bindings flush it's pretty easy to scrape / sand the outer edges a bit more than the center of the sides. Hence, the slight radius in the sides. I used a belt sander on this batch to level the sides and this helped a bit more but it's still pretty tuff to maintain perfect flatness [for me anyways]. |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:58 am ] |
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The way I do it is to leave the bindings a tiny bit proud at the top. Mark the entire surface with chalk, sand using a dead flat sanding board. If you keep re applying the chalk at the ends it helps avoid the problem. |
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| Author: | John Mayes [ Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:36 am ] |
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I use the PA sandpaper to the body to fit the neck too... I'll cover that in upcoming videos.... pretty simple and great method. |
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| Author: | Neil [ Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:04 am ] |
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In my repair business, I reset a lot of old Martin guitar necks. The strip of sandpaper method that Lance describes is the best way I have found to fit the neck heel to the shoulders. I use piece about 4” long by 1” wide in 100 grit. I used to reset the neck angle with a chisel and files. Now I take part off with a chisel and finish it with the sandpaper. Sometimes the sandpaper alone is enough. To keep things even, I do 2-3 strokes on one side, then 2-3 on the other, and then the center of the heel plate. I just have to make sure that I don’t touch the heel where it meets the fretboard so I don’t inadvertently change the scale length. Sometimes I have to buff out a few finish scratches on the side. But this process takes a lot less time than it used to. |
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| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:10 pm ] |
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Tim, The first thing I do when preparing to set a neck is to lay a short straight edge across that area of the sides to be sure that the surface where each cheek will sit is perfectly straight. I always check the surfaces before the body heads into finish in preparation for the upcoming marriage to its neck. It allows you to just work both surfaces to a straight edge which is an absolute rather than hoping to get a radius match. You idea was a good one and I hope it works well for you. I worked with Frank Finnochio at Martin and we both use that sand paper adhered to the side surface in oue own situations. (I probably stole the idea from him!) I believe Frank may use it on his setting of a new neck and I only use it on neck resets when I have no control over the flatness of the existing surfaces involved. By the way, Frank is one of the most entusiastic and skilled luthiers on the planet. His skills and design sense are surprisingly unsung since he has chosen to keep a relatively low profile in being happy to offer great classes to educate aspiring luthiers and repairmen. It was his enthusiasm that sparked my interest in making a full time move into guitar building and repair. His instruments are beautiful and I would stand them next to any being built by any of the more recognized builders in the world. Their tone is as much a pleasure to experience as their appearance. See one if you have a chance and, better yet, play one and enjoy. Regards, Kevin Gallagher |
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| Author: | Kelby [ Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:48 pm ] |
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I'm still a bit of a novice here, but I found something that seems to work pretty well. I have a Delta 18/36 drum sander. I take an old sanding roll from the drum sander that is starting to wear out. I feed the beginning of the roll under the cheek of the neck heel (abrasive side to the cheek) and convince my wife or one of my kids to pull the roll through, while I hold the neck in place and ensure that the roll feeds properly. Once my wife or son pulls the roll back until its end (I think it's about 15'-20'), I turn the guitar around and have them pull the other end. Seems to work fine, and only takes a couple minutes. |
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| Author: | Dave Rector [ Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:27 am ] |
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Kelby, what a great idea! I have a few of those old rolls that I have been trying to decide what to do with. This sounds like the perfect recycling job for them. Maybe I'll cut them into about 3' lengths and see if I can do that one by myself. Thanks for another good idea! |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:17 am ] |
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Those of you that are setting to a sanded flattened surface How are you assuring that the flat is square in the X,Y and Z planes. I am probably missing something here but from a manufacturing engineer's stand point, it is simpler and more efficient to adjust one component to fit another and maintain planer relationship, than it is to adjust two fitted components and maintain planer relationship. |
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