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http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=14220		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  chewy63 [ Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:56 am ]
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 while i was routing for the end graft this evening. my grizzly router just stopped in the middle of the rout. im wonder if anyone has had this happen to them. so now i have a half routed graft.  im thinking that it is the switch.


  probably better to get another router or lam trimmer than to fix this one.


any advise? someone said the other day that they use a couple from harbor freight that were not expensive.  i know u get what u pay for


also does anyone take this step to the router istead of clamping body and using hand held method


i have a 3 1/4 horse porter cable but seems like a bit over kill
Author:  Rick Turner [ Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:06 pm ]
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Just do it by hand.   Use a Japanese pull saw with a guide; saw your two cuts, chisel out the waste, and inlay it.

I'm as tooled up as anybody, but I wouldn't let a dumb broken power tool get in the way of a job that takes three minutes to do by hand. It's good to know how to actually hand build a guitar...
Author:  PaulB [ Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:16 pm ]
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I've got a 6" steel rule with sand paper stuck to one side (so it doesn't move) and use a box cutter to scribe the end graft. Chisel out the waste.
Author:  davidmor [ Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:25 pm ]
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I have a Bosch router that I am always having to pull out the switch, disassemble it to clean out the dust, and re-assemble. I have done it so many times, I takes me less than 10 minutes to do it from start to finish.  Terrible design!  If it has one of those rocker style switches there is a fair chance that it is full of sawdust. 

As for finishing the task, I would use either my razor saw with a guide or knife like PaulB suggested and clean it up with my sharpest 1/4" chisel.  I do curved tail grafts so I use my dremel with a downcut spiral bit and router base to make the cuts then chisel out the middle.
Author:  Jim Watts [ Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:00 pm ]
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I do it like Rick and its pretty quick and accurate. I bet Rick is a little faster than I am though.
Author:  Bill Greene [ Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:00 pm ]
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[QUOTE=PaulB] I've got a 6" steel rule with sand paper stuck to one side (so it doesn't move) and use a box cutter to scribe the end graft. Chisel out the waste.[/QUOTE]

Ditto. I've done two this way, and it was no big deal. I like the router idea, but if it isn't working, finish it up by hand until you get another one.
Author:  chewy63 [ Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:22 pm ]
Post subject: 

 sweet  i will try by hand


 thanks for the feed back


 


        chewy
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Just out of curiosity could the issue with the Grizzly be the brushes need changed?
Author:  Kevin Gallagher [ Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:26 am ]
Post subject: 
    I'd advise going the route that Rick has suggested and do it by hand. I
have built so many jigs and fixtures over the years that end up back on
my shelves because, after a few times of saving all that time and using a
cool tool, I decide that i really just enjoy doing alot of the stuff by hand
and with old school hand tools.

   I have two great Fox style bending machines built from machined
aluminum parts and have used them to bend exactly one set of sides.
They sit neatly on a shelf in my machine room with all of the blankets and
temp/timer units waiting for the day when my son may opt to use them
when he begins building on a regular basis.

   I just enjoy bending by hand and gt back to doing it that way as soon as
I realized that I liked bending by hand more than I liked watching sides
cook on a pair of benders.

   It should take you a few minutes to complete.....about as long as it
takes to locate and get out your fixture, secure in place to make the
router cut and set up and plug in the router.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars
Author:  Colin S [ Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:37 am ]
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This is one job I've never understood why anyone would do it by router, as others have said by the time you've got all the jigs and routers ready and set up. You'd have scored, and chiselled half a dozen by hand. Always use the lowest level of technology that will get the job done efficiently.

I even enjoy cutting binding channels by hand. Apart from the lighting at night and the initial resawing, the current guitar I'm building will not have used a single bit of electricity.

Colin
Author:  PaulB [ Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:03 pm ]
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[QUOTE=MichaelP] Just out of curiosity could the issue with the Grizzly be the brushes need changed?[/QUOTE]

You've got a point there. Sometimes, if the brushes have enough meat left on them, you can just pop them out and file them flat - just enough to take the glaze off them. It also helps in reducing the noise level, though if it ain't working I'd expect it wouldn't be making much noise.
Author:  Rick Turner [ Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:24 pm ]
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This is another of those jobs that I think people should learn to do by hand before they pick up a router. There is nothing like real hand work to make you much better at machine work; and then when the machine fails you, you don't have to go to another machine (your computer) to ask for help. You already know what to do. Solutions have been proposed here that take less time than booting up a computer and logging onto OLF!

There's something (or there's a lot) to be said for pretty traditional training...even if you're eventually going to use a CNC machine for some tasks.   
Author:  Dave Bamber [ Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:12 pm ]
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Ok so I have a seriously newbish question here for the professionals.

As my first build is very imminently undersway (will be underway soon as I've picked up my first neck blank/back and sides set beginning of Nov), I have been flip-flopping between using powertools as liberally as is recommended in the Kincade book I have, and eschewing powertools entirely in this first build.

The advantages of the fist method, it would seem, are that I can stick entirely to the book for build #1 and also that it would be a lot quicker.

However, a big part of me says go with the second method becuase I would begin developing a better relationship with wood, and although powertools get the job done quicker, they also make newbie errors quicker too.

So, my question would be - for a complete guitarmaking virgin like me, how much time would I *really* save given I would have to build all the jigs myself?

Or are there any jobs which are genuinely better done with powertools to begin with?
Author:  Kim [ Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Just an opinion here. Building a jig for a certain task can certainly save you time in the long run, and time is money, no matter if you are a pro or not. But you do need to justify the time and money spent in producing the jig by weighing up how many guitars you are going to build with it.

If a jig takes a day to make and cost you $100.00 in material, and it only saves you 20 minutes per build, your going to need to build quite a few guitars to justify it taking up space in your shop. On the other hand, if the jig can take a lot of the risk out of a particular process in relation to personal injury or damage to stock, go ahead and build it regardless of whether it saves you time or not.

So it really is just a matter of personal taste but another benefit of jig making is that it will hone your build skills and teach you that you really do need to take your time with woodwork and get things right.

So, building jigs is mostly, or should be, an exercise in precision. ie; You build jigs to accurately repeat a process, if you build a fault into a jig, you accurately reproduce that fault into the component produced from that process, now that can be expensive.

Cheers

Kim
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dave, take my word for it; you can mess up just as fast with hand tools as with 'lectric ones!

I'm not sure what the Kinkade book teaches, but I started with the Sloane's, Siminoff's and Cumpiano's books, and they all tell you to do many tasks with hand tools, which I did. I have since slowly added more and more power tools, but I still enjoy doing a fair amount of work with simple hand tools.

It is easy to get a bit too enthusiastic with power tool aqusitions, jigging, fixures and so on, but some of it sure speeds up production and improves accuracy. I have tended to go overboard more towards the other end of the tool universe; I lust after fine planes, chisels and saws and such, and I regularly hunt flea markets, antique stores, online dealers and ebay auctions. Choose your addiction! I find it helpful to be able to use all these old tools for many tasks, but they need not be fancy to work well. It is much more important that you know how to tune and sharpen them, and know enough to chose the right tool for the job.

I would hate to have to make molds, radius dishes and so on without power tools, but a router/trimmer, drill press and band saw should get you far, and with the help of some basic cabinet makers tools most of the regular building tasks should be taken care of. A wise thing to do is to add more tools when you know you need them, not before. Buy the best tool you possibly can afford, and cry only once (not each time the tool is used!).
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:30 am ]
Post subject: 
This is funny, I do different than everyone but I do similar to everyone. I don't have jig for my end grafts. I first build the inlay with side purflings if it gets them. Then take take the inlay to the body and carefully locate it and scribe it. I then take my Zona saw and a backing block and saw the boundary just to the tail block. I then use my inlay fixture and Foredom with an 1/8" bit and take out the the access in the middle just to the tail block. Then come back with a chisel and remove the rest of the side material up to the saw line and dress with 150p paper just to keep a uniform glue surface. My inlay is a tad longer than required and wedge shaped so when I glue it in I tap it in a bit to get a real tight fit. Once the glueded up and cured I trim the wedge flush top and back edge. From start to finish of making the pocket takes maybe 10 min.
Author:  burbank [ Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:21 am ]
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[QUOTE=Rick Turner]
.....There's something (or there's a lot) to be said for pretty traditional training...even if you're eventually going to use a CNC machine for some tasks.   [/QUOTE]

I agree. Especially since I like doing a lot of stuff by hand. Machines don't give a feel for the wood, so I don't learn anything about the material I'm working.

I do my end grafts by hand. Quicker than a router, more fun and safer for the guitar.
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