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Saddle widths?
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=14360		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Bill Greene [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:41 pm ]
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I'm jigging up to make my own bridges, and having a pretty good time, too. Made my slotting jig today. Saddle widths are all over the map...I've got three pre-made bridges, none of which have the same width saddle. One is .080, one is .120 and one is .140. The traditional "Martin" saddle is the .080.

So I'm about to purchase another end mill to carve my slots, and was hoping somebody would have some degree of justification for their slot width...otherwise, I'm probably going in the middle of these.

Oh, and at the moment, while I try and hone my skills, I'm sticking with building dreadnaughts. Thought I'd throw that in there for clarification.

Thanks, as always.

Bill
Author:  David Collins [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:40 pm ]
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.080" is too thin. That's about what Guild uses, and aside from their cheap
plastic saddles bending, they won't accept any transducers that a customer
wants put in. Martins are 3/32", or about .093". The the Gibson, Taylor,
GraphTech and more standard after-market saddle is .125".

I may be a bit silly on this one, but I really like a saddle around .110". .093"
is just a bit too dainty, and .125" is a bit too bold. There's a certain
gracefulness to .110" that just looks right to me.

Okay, I'm a freak. No idea why I pick such trivial details to spend time
developing a finicky preference about, but there's my $.02.
Author:  Andy Zimmerman [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:50 pm ]
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I am a big fan of wide saddles. I use a 3/16ths.
Why???
I like the wider area for intonation while still allowing for a gentle slope back
towards the bridge pins.
Author:  BobK [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:53 pm ]
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Bill,

I've been alternating between 3/32 and 1/8". Plenty of room for compensation on both and I can't say that I can "hear" a difference between the two. At this point I'm leaning toward 3/32. As far as end mills, I love these from micromark. I've had good results on ebony using my drill press. No chatter and it doesn't grab like a 2 flute router bit (not a problem if you use a router). They also do a great job rosette slots using a router. Not sure how they'd do on 50 BRW bridge blanks though. Happy to loan you one...

micromark fish tail bits

Bob
Author:  old man [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:37 pm ]
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My saddles are 1/8" and I use the same "fish tail" bit that Bob mentioned.

Ron
Author:  Rick Turner [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:58 pm ]
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I'd suggest that if your customer's present and possible future needs are important to you, that a 1/8" saddle is worthy of consideration. That will allow changes in action and in string gauge while providing sufficient intonation latitude for future work.   This is on area where I think function trumps a luthier's particular or peculiar aesthetic.
Author:  Martin Turner [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:06 pm ]
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I use between 3/16" and 1/8". As others have posted, I like some leeway for
intonation.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:40 pm ]
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[QUOTE=Rick Turner] I'd suggest that if your customer's present and possible future needs are important to you, that a 1/8" saddle is worthy of consideration. That will allow changes in action and in string gauge while providing sufficient intonation latitude for future work.   This is on area where I think function trumps a luthier's particular or peculiar aesthetic.[/QUOTE]

Rick, do you have any objection to wider saddles, such as 3/16"?
Author:  Hesh [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:20 pm ]
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I have two styles of custom bridges that I use and they are .132 and .148 in saddle slot width.  I like wider saddles too and although I don't know this to be true it seems to me that a greater amount of saddle material in contact with the bridge in the bottom of the saddle slot might transmit vibration better.  Perhaps is a Hesh myth - I don't know.  But it also seems to me that a wider saddle with a wider base would have less of a tendency to let itself be knocked over - meaning resist any forces trying to make it lean forward.  I'll add that as for saddle height I like to have 2/3 of the tree underground meaning in the bridge and 1/3 of the saddle above the bridge.
Author:  Blanchard [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:16 am ]
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I am now using 3/16" saddles. They allow full intonation without any of the strings ending up on a knife edge. The saddles don't develop notches as quickly.

I also lean my saddle back toward the bridge pins at about 12-15 degrees. This helps keep the vector force of the strings break angle more in line with the saddle. it also reduces the stress on the bridge since the string is not pushing forward on the saddle as much.

Mark
Author:  Daniel M [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:50 am ]
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I too am in the 3/16" camp, for all the reasons mentioned above.
Author:  Kent Chasson [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:58 am ]
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There's a Somogyi article in American Lutherie #36 where he talks about saddle width.  He thinks wider saddles (3/16") provide better coupling.  It may even be on his site.


I'm curious about the torque issue in general.  I'd love to hear some discussion about why one would want more or less torque on a bridge.  Seems less torque might encourage more monopole and less rocking of the bridge.


If you think of the saddle as a lever, it seems that a wider saddle would be under less torque than a narrower one given the longer lever arm on the bottom.  Any engineers want to address that?
Author:  grumpy [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:08 am ]
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I've always preferred 3/32" saddles. Both visually, and functionally.
 I don't think I could squeeze a 3/16" wide saddle in my bridges, without first making my bridges wider <bg>

As for intonating, correct me if I'm wrong(someone has surely done the math), but what's the range required to cover the change from, say 11-52 to 13-56 in strings?  Surely not much.... Plus, angling the saddle back towards the pins roughly 6-8 degrees takes care of the intonation issue with varying action adjustments and saddle heights.
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