"file held vertically" edit....
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| Dealing with Fret Protrusion http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=14550 |
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:13 am ] |
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Just a quick question for you old timers. Last week I had a guitar in my shop. It suffered from neck shrinkage, all maple neck on an electric. The owner complained of frets ends sticking out. I told him that the neck had likely shrunk leaving a few thousandths of fret sticking out on each side of the neck. It was easy to handle the bevel with the angled file in a wood block. It did kiss the finished neck edge but looked fine because it was even and the neck was quite worn. But then the fret protrusion.... I asked if he was more concered about the feel of the frets or the look of the finish? He really wanted the frets flush, so I explained the fine held vertically would most likely remove some finish. That's the way it went and it did remove bare neck along the fret ends. So, for more picky customers, that are worried about the cosmetics rather than play and feel, how do you deal with it? |
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:15 am ] |
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"file held vertically" edit....
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| Author: | Rick Turner [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:15 am ] |
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French polish does wonders on a fingerboard edge. |
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| Author: | Evan Gluck [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:22 am ] |
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Rick beat me to it Bruce. |
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:25 am ] |
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Ahh, which brings up another question? Can you build up the edge with finish enough to counteract the few thousandths protrusion? Or are you saying, file it and refinish it? That would make great sense. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:29 am ] |
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file it and finish it |
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| Author: | SteveCourtright [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:35 am ] |
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That is a timely tip - thanks guys - did I just hear the furnace come on? |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:37 am ] |
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Thanks Steve I was thinking the same thing. Since we did not get into probable cause here aren't protruding frets symptomatic of letting a guitar dry out, exposure to low RH? |
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:50 am ] |
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Don't know the Cause Hesh, but we can guess it suffers the same fate as most guitars with fret end protrusion. This guitar was picked up used at a retail guitar store and quickly became my friend's Andy's favorite guitar. After slicking down the frets and fret levelling, he likes it even more. This just makes so much sense to me. How else you gonna get 'em flush without hitting the finish? You know the thread the other night with a video of a guy banging out a fret job? He was nipping fret ends and then hammering away imbedding the frets. Pretty fast cat. I'll see if I can find that video. The cool thing was that he was lacquer burning in the slots at the end of the fret, so, that alone would eliminate fret protrusion, except for the bevel which could easily be dressed with the bevel mounted file tool. |
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| Author: | MarkW [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:59 am ] |
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Cold climate shrinkage (low RH). The wood shrinks, the metal frets don't. I've also seen it occasionally happen on bound fingerboards causing the binding to buldge out. |
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| Author: | Rick Turner [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:15 am ] |
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You can undercut the fret ends and then fill, but the fret top will still protrude if the fingerboard shrinks. We're about to start doing blind ended fret slots by milling them with a .023" three flute carbide bit on our CNC machine. No exposed fret slots to deal with... |
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| Author: | burbank [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:52 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Rick Turner] You can undercut the fret ends and then fill, but the fret top will still protrude if the fingerboard shrinks. We're about to start doing blind ended fret slots by milling them with a .023" three flute carbide bit on our CNC machine. No exposed fret slots to deal with...[/QUOTE] John Watkins sells fretboards cut that way. Even if the fretboard shrinks, I'd much rather trim the bevel flat than do the tangs too. Any thoughts on how you'd get the top of the frets cut reliably in production, say .010" shorter too? |
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| Author: | Rick Turner [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:44 am ] |
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For conventional frets, we're not going to try. Protruding fret ends have not been a major issue for us, especially as we build in a humidity controlled shop area. On our ceramic fret project, the frets are like bar frets, and they're completely done before going in. No leveling, crowning, filing ends, polishing...nothing. They go in and they're done. We're going to try this with a modern approach to nickel silver bar frets, too. |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:23 am ] |
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[QUOTE=burbank] John Watkins sells fretboards cut that way. Even if the fretboard shrinks, I'd much rather trim the bevel flat than do the tangs too. Any thoughts on how you'd get the top of the frets cut reliably in production, say .010" shorter too? [/QUOTE] Ron Thorn (I think he was the first) should have really gone the Laskin route with the blind fret slots, and we'd all have to call them Thorn Slots (TM) now. Instead, we all have to make up our own words for them. I like your term, Rick, more than my Boundless and John's Faux-Bound, though. We should standardize on it. I haven't tried slicing frets installed in boards on the CNC yet as, strangely enough, all the parts I'm making are going to other people, but I do know of a builder who is using the machine to bevel the fret ends after the frets are installed. I think that's proof enough that they could be shortened in-board with the CNC, I guess it's just that nobody's doing it yet. |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:27 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Rick Turner] On our ceramic fret project, the frets are like bar frets, and they're completely done before going in. No leveling, crowning, filing ends, polishing...nothing. They go in and they're done. We're going to try this with a modern approach to nickel silver bar frets, too.[/QUOTE] I'm eagerly awaiting news on those projects. The idea of a one-shot fret job is very appealing, especially considering how it opens the doors for materials that would be otherwise unusable or at least infeasible as frets otherwise. Mario is having some good luck with his own variation, his fret levelling time is down to almost nil. |
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