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Why is my PVA glue drying white?
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=14650		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  LaurieW [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:43 am ]
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Hi - I just started adding the blocks to guitars #2 and 3 and noticed my LMI white glue doesn't dry clear - it is white.  Any ideas?  I am thinking it is too old (although it is within the timeframe on the bottle and smells ok), or maybe too cold during drying? 


I used LMI white for guitar #1 with no problems.....


Thanks,


Laurie


 


 


 
Author:  Mike Loukakis [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:02 pm ]
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This happens to me with either LMI or titebond when it is too cold. I wouldn't trust the joints and redo them.
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:31 pm ]
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This happened to me too and I agree to redo the joints. If it happens in a normal temperature I would throw out the glue. The only joints I have had fail had the white residue when they dried. It is my understanding that if the LMI glue gets below a certain temperature, it is no good no matter what the temperature is when you are gluing. It has only happened to me on 1 bottle, all the rest have worked great. Good luck!
Author:  McCollum [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:44 pm ]
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Too cold!
Lance
Author:  Bruce Dickey [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:51 pm ]
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Hi Mike L., I didn't know it got that cold in Greece?
Welcome.
Author:  LaurieW [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:08 pm ]
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Thanks everyone- I'll redo them this weekend....I'll test the glue here in the house too to see if it needs to be thrown out or not...


 


 


 


 
Author:  Lillian F-W [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:17 pm ]
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Laurie, the glue may have frozen on its way up to you. If so, its needs to be thrown out.
Author:  grumpy [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:49 pm ]
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It's gone chalky. Toss it...
Author:  FishtownMike [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:27 pm ]
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Titebond used to put a date on there glues but now they have some code you need to figure out. I guess with the date to many people were passing bottles buy and that hurt sales. I know I used to look for the freshest bottle and leave the older ones.
Author:  grumpy [ Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:20 pm ]
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Franklin(Titebond) as well as Elmer's have codes that are easily understood once you know them. Search the archives at the MIMF for the specifics.

Doesn't help here, though, with the LMI stuff...

I swear, the more I read about it, the more it sounds like its just re-packaged Weldbond, which was my first thought when I got my one and only bottle of it years back....
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:48 am ]
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I've only used one bottle of Weldbond, but my sense was that it isn't the same stuff. There's a white Titebond that seems very similar, though. LMI is getting it somewhere--they don't manufacture it--but the cost is so small in the scheme of things I've stopped trying to bypass them.
Author:  grumpy [ Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:52 am ]
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Hmm, mebbe the US Weldbond is different but our's even smells like the LMI, and it dries hard, too. It's also temperamental, and goes sour in time... I was using it for bindings, because it dries hard and clear, yet if I had a small gap the next day, I could apply a warm iron and press it home.
Author:  grumpy [ Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:55 am ]
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Howard, I hear you on the cost factor, but the age factor is the issue. All you can be sure of is when -you- purchased it. If you found the manufacturer, you'd have an exact date and even time of day...

You're thinking of Titebond Extend, right?

Anywho, hot hide glue has none of these drawbacks.....
Author:  Mike Loukakis [ Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:59 am ]
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Hi Bruce,
Thanks for the welcome, I've been lurking for quite some time here. Yes it gets that cold here in Greece in winter. In continental Greece it can get bellow zero Celsius for many days. I live in an island (crete) by the sea and it rarely gets that low but it is common to see below 10 degrees celsius for many days during winter.
My shop is unheated. I noticed the white residue effect when the temperature is under 8 or 7 degrees Celsius. I think that's around 44 F. I never leave my glue bottles in the shop when I'm not working in winter. When I have to glue anything and the temperature is bellow that, I do it in my heated house and leave it dry (or cure) there.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:02 am ]
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I don't think it could be the Extend (which I have not used) because it is supposed to set more slowly than Original Titebond, and LMI glue sets faster. The stuff I'm thinking of is just called Titebond White Glue. It's a bit cheaper (by the gallon) than Original. Haven't done any real hardness testing, but it sets up like LMI. So far I've only been using it for joints that aren't stressed.
Author:  SniderMike [ Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:31 am ]
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I've seen the Titebond White as well. A lumber yard in Denver carries it.
Definitely not Extend, and I've never seen it anywhere else.
Author:  grumpy [ Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:47 am ]
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Okay, so it's not extend...

Mike, you should not be using PVA glues in temperatures that low. Any of the glues. They will go chalky, as you saw first hand.
Author:  SniderMike [ Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:56 am ]
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??? My temp is fine!
Author:  SniderMike [ Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:57 am ]
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Oops. Sorry Mario. You obviously meant MikeL.
Author:  Dave Rector [ Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:59 am ]
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Bruce Dickey had a gallon of that Titebond White when I was at his house a while back. I think he got it from Hogan Hardwoods, which used to be Paxton Hardwoods. I'm not sure of they carry it anymore though.

Bruce was going to do a test of it against LMI white and while I was there he squirted a gob of both on a scrap of wood to let them dry a do a comparison. Not sure what the result was.

Bruce, what happened to that test????
Author:  SniderMike [ Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:03 am ]
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Paxton is the place I've seen it here in Colorado.
Author:  Bruce Dickey [ Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:56 am ]
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Dave,
I remember doing that while we were together.

Both glues dried fairly clear.

I really like the Franklin White Titebond Glue.

The purpose was simple for me. Get the YELLOW OUT!

Yellow glue dries _ _ _ _ _ _. Fill in the blank.

White Glue Dries _ _ _ _ _. Fill in the blank.

Otherwise the Franklin Website gives the two glues the same properties. I was wanting an alternative to other available overpriced white glues. Just $15 a gallon when I purchased last.

Dave, and you thought I was doing something scientific!



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