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Let’s see the volutes!!
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=1486		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Sprockett [ Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:21 am ]
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I'm building a guitar to take to Harry Fleishmans setup class, he wants the students to bring a neck unfretted so I decided it was time to try my hand at doing a volute, this neck is a very blonde mahogany with maple/ gabon ebony/maple layered in for strength (along with some CF rods burried in there as well). I spent about 3 hours friday afternoon working down the neck and with some careful carving and lots of sanding came up with this:







I'm pretty happy with the result, I've been applying epoxy this weekend getting ready to spray on KTM-9, just about there. So now I'd like to see how others do theirs, this one was purely organic, I really didn't have a plan going in and just wanted to see if I could do it..

Cheers

-Paul-Sprockett38438.6422106481
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:45 am ]
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paul

that is pale mahogany; have to look hard to see the maple!

but the volute looks great. nice free hand work without a template. you should be very pleased.

michael
Author:  tl507362 [ Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:17 pm ]
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Paul,
That is a great job! I carved my first volute on the very first neck I ever carved. It is not that good, but it was freehand and all just made up. I wish I was as good as you at this. But I'm sure I'll get better as I do each one. Here is a pic

Tracy
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:23 pm ]
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I'm slowly getting a handle on volutes, but they're quite different from yours. For one, they 'pop up' a bit from the back surface, making a lip that's rasied above the plane of the back of the headstock quite considerably. I've been making them a little too 'big' for my tastest on the past few, and I'm working on paring them down, but basically, the neck shaft slopes 'up' a little just past the nut. Like it does on a strat, basically.

Here's a not-quite-finished-yet shot of one (the volute needs to be quite a bit smaller, and move 'up' towards the headstock a little more):


The one I've done that's closest to where I want it to be is on the electric currently being sprayed. Here's a shot:


It's not quite where it ended up (did a little more work, and I'm considering doing just a little more, since I'm shellacing the neck post-gloss spraying, because I prefer the feel, and there are a few tiny things about it bothering me), but that gives a bit of an idea.

This makes most sense to me, because you're leaving more thickness right behind the nut and at the beginning of the headstock, instead of having it be the thinnest spot on the neck. I basically set it up so it's a 'thumb rest' for when you're barring chords at first fret. I'll be doing the same kind of thing, only just a tad smaller, on the next few necks, which will be getting veneers on the back of the headstock as well.Mattia Valente38439.2258101852
Author:  Dickey [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:01 am ]
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So similar, amazing.
Author:  Jimmy Caldwell [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:24 am ]
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Here's one I'm using currently.

Author:  Mattia Valente [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:46 am ]
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Niiice...I particularly like the fact you've accentuated the scarf rather than try to hid it in any way. Very, very elegant. How does the volute 'feel' on that when you're barring in first position, though?

What's the headstock angle on that? It looks steeper than the 15 I tend to use, but that might just be a trick of the light.
Author:  tl507362 [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:50 am ]
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Jimmy,
Very nice! I've always wondered how you guys laminate the back of the peghead, and are still able to carve a volute. Do you have a picture of the back of peghead before you start carving the volute? I would love to see it. This would help me understand the concept. I just think it is very classy when you laminate the back of the peghead.
Tracy
Author:  John Mayes [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:13 am ]
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Author:  tl507362 [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:53 am ]
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Beautiful John! That's it, I quit. Not really.
Author:  Dickey [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:35 am ]
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Wow, Jimmy and John, those are great. Tracy, you can do that. Go get in your scrap pile, drag out the bender and get to clamping. But I have to agree the backstrap is very impressive. Necks to the next level... mmm mmm
Author:  John Kinnaird [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:51 am ]
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I have a few styles
Here is one with a veneer over the back.


The santa cruz/Martin/Collings variety



or a martinesque volute with an overlay, or underlay
Author:  Jimmy Caldwell [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:53 am ]
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Tracy,

I don't have a "before and after" shot of the actual volute, but maybe these will help.




Mattia,

The volute doesn't interfere with hand position at the first fret. This neck design incorporates a zero-fret, so it looks a little more intrusive than it is. For players who prefer a shallower profile, there are several ways to accomplish this and maintain the volute.
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:45 am ]
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Thanks for the additional pics and explanation, Jimmy. Very inspiring, and giving me new ideas already. Lovely stuff.
Author:  HankMauel [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:31 am ]
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Here is one from my file photos:

Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 8:18 am ]
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jimmy am I crazy or is that way more than 15deg back angle?
Author:  Josh H [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:05 pm ]
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Here is my jig that I use to thickness the peghead and do the volute.



You carefully feed the neck in like this....



If that goes well then you glue the venere on and hopefully it looks like this...



That is how I do mine.

Josh
Author:  Don A [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:30 pm ]
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Looks like a good jig Josh. I think I'll see if I can adapt one for my belt sander. Thanks for sharing. You should consider adding this to the forum jig section.     
Author:  Sprockett [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:52 pm ]
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Dang Josh... That ROCKS!!

I'm going to do a veneer on the back of my Koa one.

There are some GOOD builders on this system, it's hard just keeping up with some of you

-Paul-
Author:  Josh H [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:32 pm ]
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Well I’m not sure how much credit I can take for this jig. I took the idea from a jig I saw when taking my building course with Sergie de Jonge. I’m sure that with a little thought you could make this jig a lot more user friendly. Ideally I would have a small belt sander dedicated to this process that I could just leave set up all the time. But it will be a while before I have the money for those kind of extras. This jig has to be removed to change the belt which is a little bit of a pain. And it occasionally gets in the way when I want to do some carving on the sander. But I think this is the best idea I have seen for doing the volutes. However you must be carful with it. You can wreck a neck real fast if you tilt it into the sander. If you want more info on exactly what I do to get the back of the neck from start to finish or if you want some more pictures let me know.

Paul
There sure are some good builders around here. I'm still a new builder only having been at it for 1 1/2 years. I have been fortunate to have contact with a few builders who helped me get off on the right foot. The stuff I have learned by hanging around here for a few months has been a huge help. I know my guitars are turning out better because of the advice I have found here.

Josh
Author:  Dickey [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:35 pm ]
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Including you Paul. You are right, Josh is kicking major volute here!
Author:  John Mayes [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:21 pm ]
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I use a jig VERY similar josh, but use it for all sorts of things. I show it on
my videos coming up.
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:34 pm ]
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That jig's been in my head for a while now, under the 'when I get the belt sander, I'll build something like that for volutes'. Should also be useful for bridge wings. I'll probably just set up a special slave board for my thickness sander when I get that made ('cause I know I'm making that) and use that for this purpose.

Josh: how did you get that nice clean bend on what looks like pretty darn thick rosewood for the backplate? I was thinking I'd want to thin it down quite a bit more than that to get the fit right. I'm thinking I'll probably use some friendly plastic to make a form-fitting caul.
Author:  Brock Poling [ Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:46 pm ]
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[QUOTE=Josh H]If you want more info on exactly what I do to get the back of the neck from start to finish or if you want some more pictures let me know.Josh[/QUOTE]


I would be interested in seeing the whole process.
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:26 am ]
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josh,

seeing your work is a very humbling, and inspiring, experience. it is hard to imagine that you have been at it for such a short time. you are obviously going to keep raising the standards in the market.          ;           ;       

i too would like to see your process. i also use a similar jig for a variety of other jobs, e.g. shaping bridge wings.

michael mcclain
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