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How many clients change their order
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=14927		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:17 am ]
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I found Lance's poll interesting but was setting here wondering if those of you that build a standard model and customs have the same experience as I do, where the client initially commissions a standard model with standard features in common woods like Mahogany and IRW but then come back later and append their orders to custom features, woods and or appointments.

i have to say my self. With the exception of some Students I have built, near 90% of the clients that initially order pretty much Standard feature guitars come back and upgrade to custom features and or exotic woods.
Author:  LanceK [ Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:42 am ]
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Great question Michael!

I have NEVER once had a customer -NOT- change something about there guitar.
Author:  John How [ Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:00 am ]
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[QUOTE=LanceK] Great question Michael!

I have NEVER once had a customer -NOT- change something about there guitar.
[/QUOTE]

Me too, They all want to re-design the guitar it seems...
Author:  David Collins [ Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:03 am ]
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When I get back in to building, custom orders will simply not be an
option. I will build what I want, hang it on a wall, and if someone likes it
they can buy it.

If someone wants to take a sound or ideal they have in their heads, try in
futility to translate that in to words which I can in turn accurately
retranslate in to ideas in my head, then translate that in to wood, strings
and tone with perfect accuracy to the original buyers ideals - I'll refer
them to someone who does take custom orders. Custom orders are
nothing more than an open invitation to the malcontent in my experience.
I say that you just don't know what an instrument will be until you play
that individual instrument, and don't want to deal with the potential
hassles and conflict that custom order can bring with them.

Call me a pessimist, but I'd rather be a pessimist without the hassles that
realists and optimists have to deal with. Pessimists are much more often
pleasantly surprised when things do work out well anyway.

I'll build what I want to build, free to take liberty with artistry and design
at personal whim, and if somebody likes it they can buy it. Maybe I won't
sell any, which is just fine as well - that's probably why I make my living
at repair.
Author:  Pwoolson [ Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:04 am ]
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[QUOTE=John How] [QUOTE=LanceK] Great question Michael!

I have NEVER once had a customer -NOT- change something about there guitar.
[/QUOTE]

Me too, They all want to re-design the guitar it seems...[/QUOTE]
And it's always after you have quoted them a price. So then you look like a dope by saying, "er, that's going to cost more..."
Author:  burbank [ Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:19 am ]
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This probably doesn't count, so I didn't vote.

I've only built three and two of them were for me. They all changed.

Author:  Hesh [ Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:41 am ]
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I voted earlier today and just thought of something - can I change my vote..........
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:45 am ]
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I know, I know...... - it will cost more.........

Seriously David's model for selling guitars is mine as well except since I am older I claim to have had it first...

David maybe you and I can get together and build a bunch of guitars that no one wants?

For me a great deal of the attraction to guitar building is following my own design eye and tin ear......  If I had to build something that I thought was butt ugly or unwise from a functional/engineering standpoint I rather take up knitting..........
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:58 am ]
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Oh and I forgot something else - changes are part of any business transaction however....... there are many well known techniques that do indeed work much of the time for dealing with these requests in a manner that is satisfactory to all concerned.

You should never be afraid to charge more and indicate in advance that you will be doing so if what you are asked to do broadens the scope or cost of the commission.  It's value that you are providing and value deserves compensation.

Some food for thought here:  If you as a builder present yourself as being at the perpetual beckon call with a strong desire to jump through hoops for your clients don't be surprised if you find yourself doing exactly that - often.  Perhaps learn to offer the levels of customization that you are comfortable with, that are profitable for you, and also learn to either turn down certain requests or price them in such a manner as to make them cost prohibitive.

Ever hear the expression "to many choices?"  The more difficult you make it for your customers to place an order with you the higher the likelihood that you may have a customer who is less then thrilled AND that you will be spinning your own wheels much more often.

Personally if I was offered a commission for a guitar with a high degree of personalization that is specific to the customer and it included changes that were not listed as my standard offerings there would be no acceptance period and no refund available.  Instead the customer and I would agree to milestones, perhaps 3 and a final payment with progress payments all along the way.  BTW this is how many defense contracts are done.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:01 am ]
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Here you go, Hesh!



I got that Here.
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:32 am ]
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Red is not my color......  Black is....
Author:  douglas ingram [ Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:33 pm ]
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The phrase "Tyranny of Opportunity" is always of some use.

When anything is possible, how does one choose?
Author:  mgcain [ Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:51 am ]
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Its not just guitars, its anything a person with skills can build for a person with no skills, but money.  I used to build custom furniture. Now I build furniture.  Want one?  I'll be building another one soon.  Custom pieces involve change by definition, or they wouldn't be custom.  Different is not custom.  The problem is people can't EVER define what they want on any complicated project, be it furniture, software, or guitars.  If you have the patience, both to work with somebody that wants to treat you like their gardner, and to wait to get paid while they dispute the "hue" of the dark cherry stain they wanted, then custom work is for you!


Give me the ability to make my own decisions, and live and die by them...


Mitch
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:15 am ]
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I make it plane up front. a quote is a quote then once they are ready to order, they sign a contract for a guitar to specific specs. Any change after that is issued on an addendum to the order and the extra cost are picked up on that addendum. Each addendum is signed and returned or the change does not happen. This way I can keep track. To be honest If I did not do it this way I would be going crazy trying to remember.
Author:  Dave Stewart [ Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:25 am ]
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Good approach Michael.


Shouldn't allowable customizations be pre-determined by you, the luthier, and grouped as things you will alter at no charge, things that involve extra cost and (a personal list of) things that you are not prepared to change or compromise on?
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